BK Wrote:If so, then the price of gas will remain low and in three to five years time, Russia and Ukraine will have lost most of their captive European market.

Max Wrote:Stop speculations about certain prices, folks… No one knows anything for sure till papers are signed. It will be not 201$ but also not 450$. Besides once again accordingly to so called “formula” prices are set for every QUARTER. So we only can discuss prices for first quarter. Next quarter price will lower.

BK Wrote:If so, then the price of gas will remain low and in three to five years time, Russia and Ukraine will have lost most of their captive European market.

Sorry BK, what market in EU Ukraine has exactly?

We don’t sell anything to EU, we only transport. Since the Merkel declares “confidence in Russia is lost’ no one will build alternative ways for Russian gas. It will be still flowing only through Ukraine so we still have our lever, the transit rate.

At the moment the cooperation with Russia is not profitable for us. If Russia will fail and stop export we will rebuild our GTS for Caspian pool… even if we stop it, it will not damage us economically at all.

Max Wrote:Loosing what? Unprofitable transit which makes 60% of Russian export?

Russian999 Wrote:Ukraine loosing... pink dreams about democratic country!

Ukrainian Wrote:You know how to build a better world with sacrifice of human rights and freedom?
We have heard this already...
Can somebody answer for the question:How can be possible that Russian as Company "Gasprom"is not responsible for their own clients in EUROPEAN Union?
How can become possible in Europe in XXI century that the Company took measures cutting gas supply without any officially proved cases against their transit partner and without agreement and warning of their clients in Europe?
Does this undersrtable?

Max Wrote:

Russian999 Wrote:Ukraine loosing... pink dreams about democratic country!

I can’t figure out your message about pink democratic countries… and blue dictatorships, right?

The conditions of Russian transit may be profitable or not. At the moment due to political motives Russia creates unprofitable conditions of transit. OK.

We should wait a bit while EU will find alternative ways in Caspian pool and Iran, we should also find alternative ways for Ukraine as own shelf producing and diversification of origins… and then to stop transit completely.

Simple as that.

Justme Wrote:I agree with Russian999 in general but with all I know of the US I cannot call the country democratic. :roll: They even don't have direct electons.

russian999 Wrote:You should gather your people and kick out all your hrushenkos

Max Wrote:

russian999 Wrote:You should gather your people and kick out all your hrushenkos

May be but it will not solve our problem of gas dependence on dictatorship, it will only deepen it. I have better idea: we should gain energy independence, alternative ways, devirsification and then... simply kick Russian gas off the markets of Europe and Ukraine. As moral compensation for troubles.

It's not the end of cheep gas age... it's also the end of Russian gas in Europe age.

Ukrainian Wrote:You say that.
You know how to build a better world without human rights and freedom?
We have heard that from Gitler and Stalin....

BK Wrote:

Moskal Wrote:You are arrogantly trying here to discuss about things, which you know about only from your " free" media, the extent of your knowledge can be judged by the fact that you consistently distort proper Russian names including my nick here (do you mind my distorting yours).

Let me quote something, that may back you off in your poor attemts to prove that Europe supports the Ukraine - this is the quote from information, which I work with on a day-to-day basis:

Overall, the debate between Energy Commissioner Piebalgs, Czech Deputy Prime Minister Vondra and Euro-parliamentarians was balanced with majority of speakers supporting the idea of pushing for alternative pipeline routes, mentioning Nabucco in particular. The Council of the EU announced that it was now waiting for proposals from the European Commission on this issue in order to put in place more efficient strategies in the long term.

What a pleasure to see you here again! My apologies for mispelling your nick, no offense was intended, but please feel free to distort my nick as much as you like! The funnier, the better! Forgive me if I simply ignore your personal remarks and instructions to "back off." The European Commission has indeed been trying to preserve a semblance of neutrality, so much so that it made a point today of repudiating the statements from Monitors pointing a finger at Ukraine who, according to the disavowal, were not members of the European Commission force --meaning, it can safely be assumed, that they were Russian monitors.) As for Nabucco, that actually supports my position. As you surely know, Nabucco is a pipeline which completely bypasses Russia and Russian gas. It is opposed by Russia and supported by the U.S. and although it was proposed some time ago, it was considered unnecessary by many EU countries -- that has apparently changed as a result of the present situation. Nevermind. Let's hope that tomorrow brings a solution that everyone can live with.

Ukrainian Wrote:Please, don’t discuss or start here false and wrong topics like ”Ukraine wants…”.Ukraine had never said that ,the Head of Russian” Gasprom” said it. There is technological issue about the necessary amount of gas which makes possible transit if gas itself…The issue which can be discussed by specialists only.

Don’t You remember what ideas for great Russians like Solzenitzin, Saharov, Shostakovitch ,Politkovskaya and others didn’t appreciate their own lives ?for freedom, for humanity ,for peace….
Don’t You feel shame for what people write in here? Are You thinking about “moral violence”? Don’t put “bombs” in that war for Your sake! It is dangerous situation :we, Ukrainian people ,may become to be tired to faith ,if You press on us we gill give up and choose for next President the one who will obey to Russia, we don’t have too much variants of democracy in here, we have party in opposition, which was officially supported by Russia before Orange Revolution.

Do You really believe that Ukraine is a machine for transit of Russian gas to Europe? And when it is not working You would call for “auto service”? No ,it is not ,there is people lives, people rights to live in free country, in safe country ,human rights ,the same for EVERY HUMAN ON THE EARTH !and when people discuss here the example like”…if Ukraine have no money to buy “Cadillac” or “Lincoln” ,Ukraine has not to buy”….no it is -10-20 degree below zero of cold in the winter is normal in here and if we pay any price which is offered to us, then our people and factories would be below the line of poverty…or will look for our own sources of heat, and in this case, to use our gas system for our own needs.
Does anybody care about UKRAINIAN PEOPLE<NOT gas conflict? Think about simple issues as if in Your family ,in YOUR OWN country: will You survive if Your business partner wants to capture Your property, that has happened with transport gas system of Byelorussia, will You survive if there is enemy inside who betrays You in Your own family ,will You survive if Your neighbors look at You as at the reason of their troubles ?

Discuss real simple matters….if we will sacrifice our human rights to be Ukraine ,not a part of Russian political system ,rights for respect of our work ,if theoretically there is the corrupting company would exist which related with Russian gas ,there should be a criminal case against this company, without mention people of Ukraine, our rights ,our country.If WE will not exist as a country,one day You may discover Russian gas Company cuts gas to You and there is no Ukraine to blame….Will You call for “Auto service”?

Ukrainian Wrote:Please, without taking personal,can somebody answer for the question:How can be possible that Russian as Company "Gasprom"is not responsible for their own clients in EUROPEAN Union?
How can become possible in Europe in XXI century that the Company took measures cutting gas supply without any officially proved cases against their transit partner and without agreement and warning of their clients in Europe?
Will we go to the better world on those prinsiples?