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Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - Moskal - 01-15-2009
BK Wrote:Speaking as a law professor and lawyer myself, I can tell you that there is one group of people who are watching the situation with big smiles: lawyers! The legal questions involved are facinating at multiple levels as is the prospect of thousands and thousands of lawsuits for everything from breach of contract to wrongful death. Perhaps international lawfirms will begin hiring again!
On a more serious note. The question is not when the crisis will end --the answer to that is that it will end soon --the real question is HOW it will end because the answer to that will affect Russia and Ukraine for years to come. My hope is that the EU accepts Ukraine's request for an international consortium to manage Ukraines gas transit lines.
Law professor! How wonderful!
Your hope will never be fulfilled, I'm afraid. For a number of reasons. First of all, so called old (continental - sorry!) Europe will not conflict with Russia for any ex-soviet territory. After Georgia. Baltic states were the last limit. Second- there are contradictions withtin EU, which Moscow has learned to play on. Third - The demand for resources will only grow, experts from all over keep saying, despite the crisis. And Russia in toerms of aggregated resources is the reachest country. Fourth - the crisis will come to its logial end - collapse of the US domination in the world (though they will remain dominating in the western semisphere) - and quite soon, most likely this year. And fifth - Uncle Sam being behind the curtains is driving the ukrainian crisis will provoke another war with Russia. For the pipe this time, which Russia will have to take. As a result disintegration of the Ukraine as a separate state (I cannot call it independent). Is that enough, professor?
Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - Moskal - 01-15-2009
Magnus Lundberg Wrote:Quote:Alexey Miller, Gazprom chairman, clearly said: We are ready to pay Ukraine for transit just like we pay other EU members for transit, because Ukraine is not only transit route!
Exactly Gasprom Agrees!
Why do they (Putin, Gazprom) refuse to give the technical gas then? Were their allegations of gas stealing just a lie in that case?
Because it is just some 21 million cubic meters or around $9.5 million DAILY @ average European price. Would you give? Would anyone give it?
They already stole the gas. Why just giving them more? To steal again and mock on Russia as they do?
Again, your westerners favorite mantra - Clause 1: Russia is evil Cluase 2: If Russia is not evil see Clause 1.
Whatever we do we are evil for people like this Magnus Lundberg. We are not allowed to have our political. commercial and whatever interests as we are evil and don't deserve it. Am I right at displaying your western concept of Russia?
Re: Putin accuses Ukraine of holding Europe hostage over gas row - Andrey - 01-15-2009
Quote:Overall, the debate between Energy Commissioner Piebalgs, Czech Deputy Prime Minister Vondra and Euro-parliamentarians was balanced with majority of speakers supporting the idea of pushing for alternative pipeline routes
Seems like there is a perfect Entente Cordial between Russia and Europe as Russia is building alternative pipelines to Germany and to Bulgaria on the seabed bypassing all the transit countries that for some reasons consider it normal to impose a blockade on Europe.
Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - Guest - 01-15-2009
russian999 Wrote:I want to ask my europeans and ukraines frends to comment recent gas tensions between Russia and Ukraine. I think, that main reason for that situation is political chaos in Ukraine. And, I think, that such irresponsible "democracy" should not be supported by West, but be punished by responsible democratic countries. What do you think about that?
Hi friend,
I am a Slovak. At the moment I dont care that much who is responsible. My country is paying regularly world prices for the gas to Russia and there are contracts between Russia and Slovakia. So, where is the gas?
Is this the decent business behaviour?
Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - Magnus Lundberg - 01-15-2009
The Times
January 15, 2009
Putin has given us a wake-up call: we're vulnerable to blackmail
The game Russia is playing with its gas is not just a European problem. It exposes Britain's dangerous energy dependency
Rosemary Righter
It is hard to decide which is more despicable, the virulent untruths issuing from the Kremlin or the readiness of gas-starved European politicians to gang up on Ukraine. Russia's insistence that the gas is there, if Ukraine would only pump it through, is pure KGB-speak.
Tuesday's ceremonial reopening of the taps that Gazprom should never have turned off was a propaganda stunt, no more. What went through was a trickle, halted after a few hours. Not only that, but Gazprom insisted that its “trial” shipment be moved along a pipeline that Ukraine needs for domestic use, to supply Odessa and other cities. To ship it through to Europe, Ukraine would have had to deny heating to its own citizens. Small wonder EU monitors met with Russian obstruction.
Gas flows to Europe will resume only when Vladimir Putin decides that Russia has successfully pinned the donkey's tail on Ukraine. But an end to the immediate crisis will not alter the fact of Europe's vulnerability to Russian caprice. The Russian Prime Minister has done what no Soviet leader did - made Russia's key national asset an instrument of political blackmail. He has done it before, in 2006; he could do it again.
Forget about this being a “commercial dispute”, as the EU supinely affects to believe. Russia made no serious attempt to solve its pricing dispute with the ineffectual and divided Ukrainian Government. This is a Kremlin “cold war” against Ukraine's dream of belonging to the West. When Mr Putin - not Gazprom's management, note - ordered the gas to be cut off to Europe as well as Ukraine, the point he was making was political, and it was this: if shivering Europeans want secure supplies of Russian gas, they must either invest, with Gazprom, in new pipelines under the Baltic and Black seas that would bypass “unreliable” Ukraine, or trust Russia to secure Ukraine's future “reliability”. If you want your gas, in other words, hands off Ukraine.
Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - Moskal - 01-15-2009
Magnus Lundberg Wrote:Dear Juha,
Perhaps, you are write, but there is one important thing I can't admit. Russia blames Ukraine of stealing of gas means using the technical gas for gas transportation to supply Europe. It is imposible to carry Russian gas without this technical gas. How should Ukraine transport the gas in this case?
Wrong again! The ukrainians claim they need technical gas. But it is "only" 21 mcm. They took instead 78 mcm on the first day.
Besides the transit contract provides that the ukrainians need to bother where to get this technical gas from.
And not Russians.
Re: Ukraine blocks gas after Russia turns taps on - cloggy - 01-15-2009
Top priority for the EU is now to get the gas by-passing Ukraine. I do hope, that the construction of the South Stream and Nord Stream pipeline projects comes on steam in 2009. The absolutely dismal behavior of Ukraine in this dispute provides ample evidence, that its government is not to be trusted, neither in what it says nor in what it does. How come, that the West, always eager to condemn, acquits Ukraine and puts the blame on Russia? Russia is not to blame here, as any country would act in exactly the same way as Russia - including the UK, Norway and the Netherlands.
Or it the present situation George W's parting gift to Europe?
Re: Ukraine blocks gas after Russia turns taps on - Moskal - 01-15-2009
cloggy Wrote:Top priority for the EU is now to get the gas by-passing Ukraine. I do hope, that the construction of the South Stream and Nord Stream pipeline projects comes on steam in 2009. The absolutely dismal behavior of Ukraine in this dispute provides ample evidence, that its government is not to be trusted, neither in what it says nor in what it does. How come, that the West, always eager to condemn, acquits Ukraine and puts the blame on Russia? Russia is not to blame here, as any country would act in exactly the same way as Russia - including the UK, Norway and the Netherlands.
Or it the present situation George W's parting gift to Europe?
Thank God! There still are Brits with brains! They do exist!
Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - Pete - 01-15-2009
JHSussex Wrote:Bloody hell Pete you're working overtime.Believe me mate, I'd love to have the job you imply on
Being handsomely payed for something I currently do at home after work... for "my own sick amusement" (sic) I suppose. Anyway, pity this forum isn't really populated, would be interesting to see wider spread of opinions from different people. Quote:No need as the Kremlin seems to be making a 'robust' and 'entirely believable' explanation of events. :hahaAt least more beleivable than explanations of ukrainians (not to mention they change them almost every day)
Quote:Grow up, turn the gas on and charge Kiev 235 USD. It's very simple.Well, it seems to me that it wasn't that "simple" owing to ukrs who didn't agree on anything higher than $201 and quit negotiations.. I do not recall them resume bargaining gas price for their own country since than, if I didn't miss some news of course.
*shrugs*
Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - BK - 01-15-2009
Moskal Wrote:BK Wrote:... The question is not when the [gas] crisis will end --the answer to that is that it will end soon --the real question is HOW it will end because the answer to that will affect Russia and Ukraine for years to come. My hope is that the EU accepts Ukraine's request for an international consortium to manage Ukraines gas transit lines.
Law professor! How wonderful!
Your hope will never be fulfilled, I'm afraid. For a number of reasons. First of all, so called old (continental - sorry!) Europe will not conflict with Russia for any ex-soviet territory. After Georgia. Baltic states were the last limit. Second- there are contradictions withtin EU, which Moscow has learned to play on. Third - The demand for resources will only grow, experts from all over keep saying, despite the crisis. And Russia in toerms of aggregated resources is the reachest country. Fourth - the crisis will come to its logial end - collapse of the US domination in the world (though they will remain dominating in the western semisphere) - and quite soon, most likely this year. And fifth - Uncle Sam being behind the curtains is driving the ukrainian crisis will provoke another war with Russia. For the pipe this time, which Russia will have to take. As a result disintegration of the Ukraine as a separate state (I cannot call it independent). Is that enough, professor?
Who knows what will happen tomorrow? I don't, but an educated guess is that Europe will, reluctantly, play an intermediary role between Ukraine and Russia which will end Russia's ability to evade resonsibility for its own actions. I believe that it is precisely because of what happened in Georgia last summer that Europe will get involved now --before Russia presents them with another fait accompli.
You are correct that Russia's divide and conquer policy of negotiating separate contracts served it well during the Georgian invasion. But things have changed since then as demonstrated by todays statements from Germany's President and a German trade group currently IN Russia, that quote--Russia needs Europe more than Europe needs Russia--unquote. Russia has squandered its political capital and Europe is uniting. If you look at the membership of the EU today you will see that it already includes many of the Soviet empires former victims. Ukraine will eventually be a member of the EU (although probably not NATO.)
As for the United States, the cold war is over, the Soviet Union no longer exists, the U.S. is the sole superpower. The US has its own economic problems to worry about now and even if it didn't, it has no reason to pay much heed to Russia --after all, eagles don't chase flies --even loud nasty ones.
BUT, in fairness, I believe that Russia has incredible potential --but that is all that it has --potential. It should start developing that potential internally rather than pathetically trying to maintain the image of a world power. Need proof? What is the rate of the ruble against the dollar today? Or even against the Independent state of Ukraine's hrivna? Of course, these are only facts, you are free to disregard them as appears to be your habit.
Re: Ukraine blocks gas after Russia turns taps on - Guest - 01-15-2009
There seems to be a lot of Ukraine bashing in this group. For some reason politics are always brought up. ie Ukraine brought it on itself when they started going toward the west instead of Russia. Why should that even come into the picture.
If this is a contractual agreement then there are civilized ways to resolve issues. The turning off of gas is not a civilized way. It is an example of brute force. Until Russia learns to act in a civil way then any move by Europe to tie itself to Russian gas just opens them up to potential future manipulations.
There have been allegations that Ukraine is stealing Russian gas. To-date there have been no figures substantiating these claims. I even saw the president of Ukraine state that he would be willing to go to court on this matter. If Russia is so confident of being right why do they not accept that avenue.
There are courts which are impartrial and can resolve the issue if parties want them resolved. Negotiations are usually give and take, not only take.
It would seem that the logical thing to do would be to step back and base the resolution on pure facts and not on underhanded pressures to influence parts of Ukraine into the Russian fold or to punish Ukraine for even thinking of going toward the west.
If resolution is really sought then stick to facts and not inuendos.
Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - Pete - 01-15-2009
BK Wrote:And US involvement into georgian events sooo corroborate your statement...
As for the United States, the cold war is over, the Soviet Union no longer exists, the U.S. is the sole superpower. The US has its own economic problems to worry about now and even if it didn't, it has no reason to pay much heed to Russia --after all, eagles don't chase flies --even loud nasty ones.
Cold war is over long ago indeed, but american neocons tend to forget that fact. And for some reason US (and UK) politics usually show abnormal reaction on everything that happens about Russia. So whether Russia is superpower or not, looks like anglo-saxon still play their time-honoured geopolitical game. Remember good old British Empire insidious efforts on Caucasus in beginning of XIXc. or invasion to Crimea in middle of same century. Suspiciously similiar areas, don't you think so dear professor?
Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - BK - 01-15-2009
Pete Wrote:///Cold war is over long ago indeed, but american neocons tend to forget that fact. And for some reason US (and UK) politics usually show abnormal reaction on everything that happens about Russia. So whether Russia is superpower or not, looks like anglo-saxon still play their time-honoured geopolitical game. Remember good old British Empire insidious efforts on Caucasus in beginning of XIXc. or invasion to Crimea in middle of same century. Suspiciously similiar areas, don't you think so dear professor?
Not really, and although it is far from the real topic, I might remind you that the most vocal critics of Russia for its invasion of Gerogia came from former members of the Soviet Union and WARSAW pact, inlcuding, of course, Ukraine. I'll give you this --even if Russia is not a superpower in the full sense of the word, it certainly now rivals the U.S. in the level or resentment, distrust and even hatred that others have towards it --especially among its former "allies" in Central and Eastern Europe. Enough rhetoric. Lets see what tomorrow brings and perhaps you can join me in hoping for a settlement that will bring warmth to the homes of Europe, a sigh of relief from Ukraine, and the dollars and Euros that Russia needs to realise its future potential.
Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - Pete - 01-15-2009
BK Wrote:..came from former members of the Soviet Union and WARSAW pact.Hardly an argument, since we've witnessed these countries to act as conductors of US politics in Europe also in matters not related to Russia
Anyway, I agree with you on the conclusion, let's hope for current situation to resolve as soon as possible. I also would like to see EU cooperating with Russia and transit countries for the purpose to find an acceptable solution which could help to prevent such crisis following years.
Re: Putin accuses Ukraine of holding Europe hostage over gas row - BK - 01-15-2009
Moskal Wrote:You are arrogantly trying here to discuss about things, which you know about only from your " free" media, the extent of your knowledge can be judged by the fact that you consistently distort proper Russian names including my nick here (do you mind my distorting yours).
Let me quote something, that may back you off in your poor attemts to prove that Europe supports the Ukraine - this is the quote from information, which I work with on a day-to-day basis:
Overall, the debate between Energy Commissioner Piebalgs, Czech Deputy Prime Minister Vondra and Euro-parliamentarians was balanced with majority of speakers supporting the idea of pushing for alternative pipeline routes, mentioning Nabucco in particular. The Council of the EU announced that it was now waiting for proposals from the European Commission on this issue in order to put in place more efficient strategies in the long term.
What a pleasure to see you here again! My apologies for mispelling your nick, no offense was intended, but please feel free to distort my nick as much as you like! The funnier, the better! Forgive me if I simply ignore your personal remarks and instructions to "back off." The European Commission has indeed been trying to preserve a semblance of neutrality, so much so that it made a point today of repudiating the statements from Monitors pointing a finger at Ukraine who, according to the disavowal, were not members of the European Commission force --meaning, it can safely be assumed, that they were Russian monitors.) As for Nabucco, that actually supports my position. As you surely know, Nabucco is a pipeline which completely bypasses Russia and Russian gas. It is opposed by Russia and supported by the U.S. and although it was proposed some time ago, it was considered unnecessary by many EU countries -- that has apparently changed as a result of the present situation. Nevermind. Let's hope that tomorrow brings a solution that everyone can live with.
Re: Ukraine wants $US 700 million worth of gas to resume transit - NOT sector_Gaza - 01-15-2009
Putin has now asked EUROPE to pay for the transit gas. Figures! The Italians have announced that meetings to establish a consortium to do this will start tomorrow. If details can be worked out, the consortium will take responsiblity for the cost of transit gas until Ukraine and Russia reach an agreement on both gas and transit prices. It is little more than a face saving measure for Russia who will EITHER have to openly reveal itself to be a contemptuous and contemptible bully (which the world now knows anyway, except perhaps for sector-Gaza and similarly misguided Russian nationalists) -- OR Russia will have do as Ukraine has been asking and start pumping the FULL amount of gas owed to Europe. It is a devastasting defeat for Russia. Kudos to Ukraine for standing up to its imperialistic neighbor!!
Re: Ukraine blocks gas after Russia turns taps on - RussianRussianRussian - 01-15-2009
And you unless do not know, what Russia has submitted to the European court?
But If it was possible to sit in court and easy to understand a problem Russia so and has made. And certainly we will solve this problem through court. But gas is necessary today, Ukraine does not wish to pay today for gas, and this year has stolen at us a gas part.
If you want, we can wait for the court decision, and then proceeding from this decision renew to you of delivery. Such affairs can be considered year or two, arranges you such variant???
There are no you want that we swung today gas, and you does not excite that from us it is stolen also by us incur losses. After all you it does not concern. It is necessary for you that at you in houses it was warm, and that that we will incur losses and to us it will be bad you after all does not excite?
It is easy to you to tell Russia: continue to swing gas in spite of the fact that its Ukraine steals from you, sell to Ukraine gas more cheaply than it costs. After all Europe from it does not lose anything. After all we lose it, and it does not excite Europe.
If you such generous that help Ukraine to pay off with their debts.
Help them money that they could buy gas. But you generous only when for this generosity pay others. You want that you were generous, and Russia paid for this generosity.
What can you tell on it?
Show the true worth.
Re: Ukraine blocks gas after Russia turns taps on - muschamp - 01-15-2009
guest
I live in the the westIf this was purely about business, the Russians would have given up by now, I understand that they are loosing $700 million dollars a month in this dispute. No one takes that kind of hammering unless it was life and death. In a big shop or any kind of business, the management has to right of 5% of his stock due to stealing from shoppers and employees. Sacking them all to catch one or two is impractical, so he keeps the shop open, it is a minor problem,every one does this, it does not kill you.
There is nothing in the west now to lean towards, that is not available where you are, especially Gas. Western Europe now looks like a socialist state, a lot of big company,s and banks are being funded by the government. That is to say virtually every major institution is part state owned where I am living, due to the credit crunch. It is the only way out of this recession. The cold war was all about this. Socialism lost, and now we are adopting it.
I am not a Socialist or communist, I am just amassed at how the world is. I am not attacking Ukraine for wanting a western life stile, if you say it is different and better than what you have, then I believe you. I know that this dispute is not about weather Ukraine is getting gas on the cheap or not, it is all about the spread of American Influence in the region. If I was a Russian I wouldn't turn of my Gas tap to stop you making of with 5% of my stock and loose $50 billion dollars unless I was out of my mind, or had a reason big enough to cancel out that amount of money. I would do as you say and go to court, or forget the whole thing. If America or the Western Europe secede in requiting you in my life time, it could set of a War that could kill me hear in the West that is why I don't want you hear. When I am dead you can do what you like. This situation is becoming dangerous. Both of you will not admit what is really going on, in front of a camera, you too are just playing the game, but not fooling any one. Do your selves a favor and don't lean towards any one, and keep the peace. The Americans will go some ware else to requite where it is easier.
Your country is in big trouble, the Russians have to stop that process. It is a security issue, the cost is the cost, you should have known better, you don't get something for nothing. 8-)
Re: Ukraine wants $US 700 million worth of gas to resume transit - RussianRussianRussian - 01-15-2009
And where here you have seen defeat of Russia?
Ukraine should return this money later.
Ukraine will start to pay to pay a market price for gas. Russia will pay a market price for transit through territory of Ukraine. Ukraine will return here this sum ostensibly necessary for purchase of technical gas. That's all.
As a result Russia will achieve that that Ukraine will stop larceny and will start to pay a market price. And Ukraine will save the face in front of Europe.
It is called the compromise. And here in any way defeat of Russia.
Europe does not wish to be littered neither with Russia nor with Ukraine, therefore the europas will support a compromise variant which will allow to provide transparent and reliable transit of gas on the one hand, and on the other hand will allow each country to save the face.
Russia and Europe will achieve the objective, and to Ukraine will have to pay a market price and to refuse larceny.
Yes by the way today Ukraine has sent to Gazprom the letter in which writes that can technically carry out transit of gas and technical gas necessary for this purpose at them in pipes is. So-that Ukraine blocks transit for political reasons.
Re: Ukraine wants $US 700 million worth of gas to resume transit - RussianRussianRussian - 01-15-2009
So-that you see that Russia a victory. Russia provides normal conditions for delivery of the gas to Europe. Europe receives gas and receives the control how gas passes through Ukraine.
Ukraine loses possibility to steal gas.
Re: Does anybody care about Russia-Ukraine gas conflict? - zygella - 01-15-2009
russian999 Wrote:I want to ask my europeans and ukraines frends to comment recent gas tensions between Russia and Ukraine. I think, that main reason for that situation is political chaos in Ukraine. And, I think, that such irresponsible "democracy" should not be supported by West, but be punished by responsible democratic countries. What do you think about that?
Hello,
I read online that Naftogaz (Gas distributor in Ukraine) has lot of to do with America.
America shacked their hands with Ukraine and said “Lets let Europe feel how is it to be without the gas” as Ms Timoshenko repeated apropos The cut of gas supply to Europe through Transgas pipelines.
Euro is now the strongest currency - UK and US dislike the fact, me as well because I work here and I want to buy Euro for cheap. And America want to make sure that Europe will struggle, and the US dollar will grow again.
Ukraine - doesn't have anything to loos in this conflict for not supplying the gas to Europe.
They don’t have business relations with Europe.
How I know that? Well, did you ever buy something “ made in Ukraine” me either.
No exports are made in Ukraine.
Oh, you can get made in Ukraine Prostitutes and Mafia - Professional killers.
Well, Americans will do anything and you were right when you said " don't worry they will find a way to make dollar and Pound strong again" .
“Lets let Europe feel how is it to be without the gas” as Ms Timoshenko said.
American's planned their own attacked on Empire states building, Twin Towers felt down -> they blamed Iraq.
So that they could start their hunt on Sadam Hussain who was fighting for his rights of selling his Oil from Irak on Worlds markets in Currency Euro. America new that this will make EURO very strong and they couldn’t afford that. I wonder what will happen when Mr. Putin will insist on selling his gas on European Markets in EURO’S.
I don't like the fact that American's wants to make sure that non of the European country will hold the weapons (for their protection) but why does America have them all... ???
- well they have them to make sure that they are secure so that know one can make them pay
for the wars caused outside of their country.
Unfortunately European people are very clever and they can stick together.
Slovakia and Bulgaria are very badly affected by the cut of gas supply, as they are neighbourhoods to Ukraine and they were not connected to Northern European Pipelines.
Slovakia’s Prime Minister Mr. Fico is making many efforts and had already many meetings with prime minister of Russia Mr. Putin and Ukraine's Prime Minister MS. Timoshenko. They made an agreement to supply as much gas to Europe as is agreed per contracts signed in December 2008. But when the gas crossed the bothers of the Ukraine on 14th Jan 2009
Ms. Timoshenko said: "Stop the Transition, if Russia can't deliver to Ukraine, Ukraine will not forward the gas to Europe”. But the Gas was already in Ukraine so what she was on about???
Ms. Timoshenko is beautiful lady but the “bitch” and I think that is unlikely that Ukraine will ever join European Union.
The relation between Slovakia and Russia isn't worst, it it the Ukraine that is giving us hard times.
I would like to hear your opinion on this subject.
Many thanks,
Petra Zygella
Re: Ukraina is a terrorist state? - RussianRussianRussian - 01-15-2009
Paul Wrote:Gas for People Wrote:that bloody bastards, Bendera, men, stealing gas! they are criminals! Western ukraine is full of thieves and Nazis, which hate Romania!
Eastern Ukraine is full of good and kind people. God help them to stay against nationalists from Western part of Ukraine!
This is an example of a hate speech and a call for violence and bloodshed. This message is a typical anti-Ukrainian information warfare piece that the Russian KGB operatives spread in many European forums these days. Just be aware.
Yes unfortunate you Europeans
Reading such such texts to me it becomes ridiculous and sad.KGB does not exist 18 years. I live in Russia and have already forgotten this word. And reading the European forum I meet this word constantly.
To speak that KGB extends war at a forum, it all the same what to say, that which USSR does not exist any more 18 years is at war here at a forum.
And in general what for with someone to be at war? Let's live amicably!
Let's aspire to mutually advantageous cooperation. Too I wish to tell to Ukraine, let's not accuse each other of all mortal sins, and we will conduct normal transparent business relations, without larceny and a deceit.
uper
Re: Ukraina is a terrorist state? - Sober reason - 01-15-2009
marcel dima Wrote::livre
My dear friends thanks for comments and I will propose now to administrator to close this topic with the necessary apologies to our neighbors, Ukrainians. My personal opinion is that the whole problem can be solved very easily by Russia if they want it. Too bad for inocent peoples who suffer. Fortunately, my country has its own gas reserves, and the population hasn't suffered too much during this period, but other countries around us - Bulgaria, Hungary, Moldova... :nonnon :ange
Yes the problem can be quickly solved Russia. Actually also quickly the problem can be solved Europe. How? Very simply present to Ukraine of 700 million dollars and they will pass the Russian gas (700 million dollars, it except payment of the price of transit). The price Ukraine is named.
I only cannot understand in any way why Europeans want that Russia has presented to Ukraine this money, you after all are able to do it and without Russia.
Ukraine as the Somali pirate who sits in a bottleneck has grasped a pipe and demands except money for transit a huge bribe.
You will not pay to such pirate, and do not demand that Russia to it has paid, because next time he will think "At me it has turned out! Next time I will demand still the big bribe"
hock:
Re: Ukraina is a terrorist state? - Paul - 01-16-2009
RussianRussianRussian Wrote:Paul Wrote:Gas for People Wrote:that bloody bastards, Bendera, men, stealing gas! they are criminals! Western ukraine is full of thieves and Nazis, which hate Romania!
Eastern Ukraine is full of good and kind people. God help them to stay against nationalists from Western part of Ukraine!
This is an example of a hate speech and a call for violence and bloodshed. This message is a typical anti-Ukrainian information warfare piece that the Russian KGB operatives spread in many European forums these days. Just be aware.
Yes unfortunate you Europeans
KGB does not exist 18 years. I live in Russia and have already forgotten this word. And reading the European forum I meet this word constantly.
To speak that KGB extends war at a forum, it all the same what to say, that which USSR does not exist any more 18 years is at war here at a forum.
And in general what for with someone to be at war? Let's live amicably!
Let's aspire to mutually advantageous cooperation. Too I wish to tell to Ukraine, let's not accuse each other of all mortal sins, and we will conduct normal transparent business relations, without larceny and a deceit.
Oh yea, my RussianRussianandagainveryRussian Friend,
Or should I say my FSB/KGB (no difference) friend!
Lieutenant, I wish you and your lovely Motherland best of luck! Just be decent, you and your commanders.
Ukraine said: We can give gas, but... - sektor_Gaza - 01-16-2009
We can give gas, but have no order to do so – Ukraine’s Naftogaz
Quote:Gazprom says Ukraine's Naftogaz confirms that it is technically possible to transit Russian gas to Europe via Ukraine, but that there has been no political decision from Kiev to start the process.Europe’s reaction
'Unacceptable and incredible' - that's how the head of the European Commission has described the situation around the transit of Russia's gas supplies to Europe.
Jose Manuel Barroso also says if the row is not resolved soon, EU companies might take the matter to court.
Bulgaria's leader Georgi Parvanov says European countries really feel like hostages in the gas crisis.
On Tuesday, Romanian President Traian Basescu said responsibility for the cut-off rested with Ukraine.
Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi also said he supports Gazprom's position in the dispute.
European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso has warned both the Russian and the Ukrainian energy companies that legal action may be taken against them unless they move quickly to restore gas supplies to EU clients. Barroso has called on both Gazprom and Naftogaz to resolve their differences and for supplies to resume - and said that the EU would be looking for alternative delivery routes.
Meanwhile, Slovenian President Danilo Türk said on Thursday that responsibility for the delay in gas supplies lies with Ukraine.
“The main problems are on the Ukrainian side. Our understanding is that the issues of gas transit have to be tackled. Russia has always been a reliable gas partner,” Türk noted. He also added that Kiev has to carry out its obligations concerning Russian gas transit. “Russia and the EU have created a reliable basis for partnership in gas supplies. We would like to preserve it, this tradition goes back to the times of the USSR,” the Slovenian leader said.
Mirek Topolanek, Prime Minister of the Czech Republic which currently holds the EU presidency, has proposed to work out a new energy security arrangement for Europe.