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+--- Thread: Georgia and South Ossetia at war (/thread-1703.html)
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Yalta1945 - 10-04-2008
independent Wrote:So You "ask" me:Let's be plainly logical:
Yalta1945 Wrote:What is it? It’s Your MOCKERY, that is, something absurdly or offensively inadequate or unfitting.
There are also other remarks of yours made on this forum which are cynical, that is, showing CYNICISM which means:
1. An attitude of scornful or jaded negativity, especially a general distrust of the integrity or professed motives of others.
2. A scornfully or jadedly negative comment or act.
Now let’s make a little literary analysis on the meaning of TOLERANCE. It means to recognize and respect, accept, admit, be lack of bias, etc.
I’ll stop here and ask You: How can you demand our TOLERANCE for your INTOLERANCE, that is, for your MOCKERY and CYNICISM?
Sorry, but it still don't seem an clear question to me -
1. Do you admit the passage I referred to WAS a mockery?
2. Do you admit you make cynical comments?
3. Do you see that mockery and cynicism are not compatible with tolerance?
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - russian999 - 10-04-2008
Quote:Let's be plainly logical:
1. Do you admit the passage I referred to WAS a mockery?
2. Do you admit you make cynical comments?
3. Do you see that mockery and cynicism are not compatible with tolerance?
My friend, there was survey about " what women mostly likes in mans character?". You know, actually, women mostly likes in man SENSE OF HUMOR.With such seriousness you at risk do not be flirted for some long period of time.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Newrussian town - 10-04-2008
EU is not a unity of states that it was long ago. They put down the pink glasses. I don’t understand why do they have to protect Georgia, from what? From it's own foolishness or just because Saakashvily makes his speech with EU's flag behind? Or do you really think that Europe needs such country like Georgia in their stuff, with its poverty, war, and with raw economy, for what"? Russia has old ties with Europe, they need our resources and we need their money and hi-tech so that is a good base for cooperation. And Georgia, what kind of profits can it gives to EU?-answer: none (except problems). USA? They think that Georgia is one of their states. They were very surprised when heard that Russian tanks were in there. Forget about it. Superpowers have its own problems and without Georgia. It is hard but it is true.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 10-04-2008
Yalta1945 Wrote:Let's be plainly logical:
1. Do you admit the passage I referred to WAS a mockery?
2. Do you admit you make cynical comments?
3. Do you see that mockery and cynicism are not compatible with tolerance?
1. Nope - It was an continuum to humoristic remark.
2. You confound condensed realism to cynicism
3. Irrelevant - because of 1. and 2.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Yalta1945 - 10-04-2008
independent Wrote:1. You have a strange sense of humour that equals mockery to fun.Yalta1945 Wrote:Let's be plainly logical:
1. Do you admit the passage I referred to WAS a mockery?
2. Do you admit you make cynical comments?
3. Do you see that mockery and cynicism are not compatible with tolerance?
1. Nope - It was an continuum to humoristic remark.
2. You confound condensed realism to cynicism
3. Irrelevant - because of 1. and 2.
2. You see no difference between realism and cynicism.
3. Do not expect 1. and 2. to be tolerated.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Yalta1945 - 10-04-2008
russian999 Wrote:As some Russian women put itQuote:Let's be plainly logical:
1. Do you admit the passage I referred to WAS a mockery?
2. Do you admit you make cynical comments?
3. Do you see that mockery and cynicism are not compatible with tolerance?
My friend, there was survey about " what women mostly likes in mans character?". You know, actually, women mostly likes in man SENSE OF HUMOR.With such seriousness you at risk do not be flirted for some long period of time.
"We have the great sense of humour when it comes to human rights and international law"
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 10-04-2008
Yalta1945 Wrote:1. You have a strange sense of humour that equals mockery to fun.
2. You see no difference between realism and cynicism.
3. Do not expect 1. and 2. to be tolerated.
:nonnon
I'm not willing to discuss un-politely, so I censor my answer...
btw. Can You kindly stop yelling so much in Your comments ? Using big fonts really
don't make Your statements more believable.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - gomboreli - 10-04-2008
Quote:I don’t understand why do they have to protect Georgia, from what? From it's own foolishness or just because Saakashvily makes his speech with EU's flag behind?
OldRussians or NewRussians, it definitely irritates you but the EU is smart enough to weigh all pros and cons and determine whether or not they need Georgia or another country among them. They have permament missions plus think-tank organizations which help them in evaluations. They don't give a damn about Saakashvily, but even five year-old children know what Georgia needs to be protected from..
Quote:USA? They think that Georgia is one of their states.
The Americans always refer to this Caucasian country as Republic of Georgia. The British likewise tell the difference between N.Ireland and Ireland by calling the latter 'Republic of Ireland''. So keep imagining that everyone in Putin's Russia is Einstein and nobody understands anything beyond it. That might make you feel less bitter
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Newrussian town - 10-04-2008
Turkey is trying to become a part of EU for 40 years (something like this numbers) and nothing, Germany and France are very wise old nations, and they don't want to see Georgia in the NATO. Why? They don't want the WW3 because of such a little and problem country. And of course Georgia isn't ready to be a part of advanced Europe. And I understand why. Nothing gets for free. If you want that somebody will be interested in you, you have to offer to him\her something valuable, except words.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Dmitry - 10-09-2008
Some weeks ago somebody wrote me here it was Russia who had started war with Georgia...they told they should use sanctions against Russia...and what their presidents say now??? Which country has used sanctions against Russia - who has torn their trading relations with Russian...stopped to buy gas or oil...manoeuvred their troops in Russia??? Your words were just a idle talk. The only thing you can do now - watch an economic collapse of your boss and write bosh... - nothing )))))))))))))))))
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Yalta1945 - 10-10-2008
On Russian "defending citizens". - a shield of a passport
There is difference between state’s protection of the lives and dignity of its citizens merely living in another country, and defending citizens who are engaged in creating their own independent state on the territory of another country. When in recent years many South Ossetians chose to become citizens of Russia, they, consciously or not, changed the nature of their political aspirations.
When they were still citizens of Georgia or stateless, they were involved in a dispute about the status of their territory with the government of Georgia. Thus their activities reminded many of the strive for independence by the world’s national minorities, such as the Basques in Spain or Kosovars in Serbia. Once most inhabitants of South Ossetia -- including members of the "government" of this unacknowledged state -- became official subjects of the Russian Federation, their political project of an independent South Ossetian republic transformed into a Russian imperialist enterprise, and changed the role of Russia’s "peacekeepers" in South Ossetia.
Citizens of all countries should live safely and with dignity in other countries. But should a country’s government allow foreign citizens to create an independent state within the internationally recognized borders of its territory? And should a country’s government let such foreign subjects do so under the umbrella of an armed "peacekeeping" force sent by the same state that provided the separatists with foreign passports? Even the most ardent defenders of the rights of national minorities might not agree.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.russiaprofile.org/page.php?pageid=International&articleid=a1219335055">http://www.russiaprofile.org/page.php?p ... 1219335055</a><!-- m -->
Comment by Andreas Umland
p.s. Poor Iceland, borrowing now 4 billions from Russia. What will happen if they are unable to pay back? (Svenska Dagbladet worries)
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - zzura - 10-10-2008
Russians lie all world
In that pictures and videos which Russians show as, as materials from Tskhinvali in reality they are made in Gori and Georgian villages. If you do not believe Georgian newspapers European and American magazines and newspapers are writing about this too. I read this information today
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - SiD - 10-10-2008
Yalta1945 Wrote:On Russian "defending citizens". - a shield of a passport
There is difference between state’s protection of the lives and dignity of its citizens merely living in another country, and defending citizens who are engaged in creating their own independent state on the territory of another country. When in recent years many South Ossetians chose to become citizens of Russia, they, consciously or not, changed the nature of their political aspirations.
When they were still citizens of Georgia or stateless, they were involved in a dispute about the status of their territory with the government of Georgia. Thus their activities reminded many of the strive for independence by the world’s national minorities, such as the Basques in Spain or Kosovars in Serbia. Once most inhabitants of South Ossetia -- including members of the "government" of this unacknowledged state -- became official subjects of the Russian Federation, their political project of an independent South Ossetian republic transformed into a Russian imperialist enterprise, and changed the role of Russia’s "peacekeepers" in South Ossetia.
Citizens of all countries should live safely and with dignity in other countries. But should a country’s government allow foreign citizens to create an independent state within the internationally recognized borders of its territory? And should a country’s government let such foreign subjects do so under the umbrella of an armed "peacekeeping" force sent by the same state that provided the separatists with foreign passports? Even the most ardent defenders of the rights of national minorities might not agree.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.russiaprofile.org/page.php?pageid=International&articleid=a1219335055">http://www.russiaprofile.org/page.php?p ... 1219335055</a><!-- m -->
Comment by Andreas Umland
p.s. Poor Iceland, borrowing now 4 billions from Russia. What will happen if they are unable to pay back? (Svenska Dagbladet worries)
S Osetia was AUTUNOUMY since 1922. Wenn Soviet Union ceased to exist georgians just havent accepted thier right to choose thier way. There were no russian passports that time but they FOUGHT for independence and gained it. Unrecognized, but they were independent from georgia. So it are not Russian citizens who came and proclaimed independence, but people who chosen thier way. You better see if autors you pick are in cope with reality, not thier russophobia.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Yalta1945 - 10-10-2008
SiD Wrote:The way Russia and separatists in Abkhazians and S. Ossetia act in this conflict (since the beginning):Yalta1945 Wrote:On Russian "defending citizens". - a shield of a passport
There is difference between state’s protection of the lives and dignity of its citizens merely living in another country, and defending citizens who are engaged in creating their own independent state on the territory of another country. When in recent years many South Ossetians chose to become citizens of Russia, they, consciously or not, changed the nature of their political aspirations.
When they were still citizens of Georgia or stateless, they were involved in a dispute about the status of their territory with the government of Georgia. Thus their activities reminded many of the strive for independence by the world’s national minorities, such as the Basques in Spain or Kosovars in Serbia. Once most inhabitants of South Ossetia -- including members of the "government" of this unacknowledged state -- became official subjects of the Russian Federation, their political project of an independent South Ossetian republic transformed into a Russian imperialist enterprise, and changed the role of Russia’s "peacekeepers" in South Ossetia.
Citizens of all countries should live safely and with dignity in other countries. But should a country’s government allow foreign citizens to create an independent state within the internationally recognized borders of its territory? And should a country’s government let such foreign subjects do so under the umbrella of an armed "peacekeeping" force sent by the same state that provided the separatists with foreign passports? Even the most ardent defenders of the rights of national minorities might not agree.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.russiaprofile.org/page.php?pageid=International&articleid=a1219335055">http://www.russiaprofile.org/page.php?p ... 1219335055</a><!-- m -->
Comment by Andreas Umland
p.s. Poor Iceland, borrowing now 4 billions from Russia. What will happen if they are unable to pay back? (Svenska Dagbladet worries)
S Osetia was AUTUNOUMY since 1922. Wenn Soviet Union ceased to exist georgians just havent accepted thier right to choose thier way. There were no russian passports that time but they FOUGHT for independence and gained it. Unrecognized, but they were independent from georgia. So it are not Russian citizens who came and proclaimed independence, but people who chosen thier way. You better see if autors you pick are in cope with reality, not thier russophobia.
• Russia commits itself to respect the territorial integrity of Georgia and Russian forces are allowed to step in as peacekeepers but in reality Russia supports the Abkhazian and South Ossetian separatists who represent only a small part of population in the two regions. The population shrinks and changes dramatically due to ethnic cleansings being committed by these separatists and due to large number of refugees fleeing from the regions out of fear for possible consequences of the armed conflict and violence (before the conflict, the ethnic Abkhaz were a minority — under 20 percent — in Abkhazia).
• Russia vows to act in accordance with its mandate for the peacekeeping mission but it then takes no notice neither of the violation of the agreement on tripartite peacekeeping force (since the very beginning the North Ossetian peacekeeping contingent is staffed by South Ossetians), nor of the fact that their forces just shield separatists and fall short of fulfilling their obligations to the other side (Russian peacekeepers in Abkhazia were specifically mandated to facilitate the return of internally displaced persons and refugees).
• Russia keeps declaring its respect for the territorial integrity of Georgia, but through all the time it sponsors and arms heavily (how much have been spent?) those groups of separatists loyal to the Kremlin in Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
• Russia says it respects the territorial integrity of Georgia while it simultaneously backs separatists of Abkhazia and South Ossetia in their drives to set up illegitimate forms of government and organize illegitimate voting (in 1996 South Ossetian elections mainly ethnic Ossetians — not ethnic Georgians — voted; in 2001, most ethnic Georgians boycotted elections in S. Ossetia; in 2006 a referendum was also largely boycotted by ethnic Georgians in S.Ossetia.)
• Russia assumes the role of impartial peacekeeper but it supports separatists whose leadership in South Ossetia aims at stripping off this part of Georgian territory and handing it over to Russia. In 2002 Eduard Kokoity („president“ of S.Ossetia) asked Moscow to recognize South Ossetia’s independence and absorb it into Russia. Recently, he agreed that it would form part of Russia within “several years” during talks with D.Medvedev in Moscow. Tarzan Kokoity (another official of self-proclaimed state) announced that South Ossetia would be absorbed into Russia soon so that its people could live in “one united Russian state” with their ethnic kin in North Ossetia.
• Russia claims to act as a peacekeeper but then Russian officials and military personnel are seconded to serve in both the governments and the armed forces of the separatist regions. South Ossetia’s “prime minister,” “defense minister,” and “security minister,” for example, are all seconded Russian officials.
• Russia claims to keep peace but then it starts hostile actions against Georgia and Georgians: in the summer of 2006 (when Georgia’s orientation to NATO and the EU becomes clear) several Russian military intelligence officers are caught in Georgia and accused of conducting bombings in Gori. Russia responds by closing Russia’s only road crossing with Georgia, suspending air and mail links, imposing embargoes against Georgian exports and even rounding up people living in Russia (including school children) with ethnic Georgian names and deporting them. At least two Georgians died during the deportation process.In March 2007 there was an aerial assault, combined with artillery fire, on the Georgian Government’s administrative offices in Abkhazia’s Upper Kodori Valley. In August, Russian fighter jets violated Georgian airspace, and then unsuccessfully launched a missile toward a Georgian radar station.
• Then Russia also increases its military presence in Abkhazia without the required consultation with the Government of Georgia. In late April of 2008, Russia sends highly-trained airborne combat troops to Abkhazia, as if a part of its peacekeepers. In May, Russia dispatches construction troops to Abkhazia to repair a railroad link to Russia.
• Russia pretends to keep its peacekeeping mission while it starts handing out Russian passports to citizens of Georgia in South Ossetia, creating an obvious excuse for the later substitution of its peacekeeping mission by the full-scale invasion under the pretext of protecting “Russian citizens”.
• Russia affirms its respect to Georgia’s sovereignty and territorial integrity within its internationally recognized borders by supporting numerous UN Security Council resolutions, including the resolution Russia signed just in April 2008 (USNCR 1808); Russia also holds - in Kosovo case - that serious human rights violations against inhabitants should not cause a transfer of territory, and that territory should not change hands just because of the unlawful use of force;
--- but all of a sudden Russia puts forth the same argument Russia has opposed to so that it would now be applied in Russia’s ill-suited reasoning why the Abkhazian and South Ossetian states created by Russia on the Georgian soil should be recognized.
Russia’s enduring pressure and provocations — combined with an inapt Georgian reaction — have led to the current state of Georgia being dismembered.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - SiD - 10-10-2008
You know you should better read it yourself. Every santece starts with: Russia ........(follows what bad thing is done by Russia).
Georgia remained uninvolved
. thier government has done ABSOLUTLY nothing. I understand that russophobia makes forget about any reason.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Yalta1945 - 10-10-2008
SiD Wrote:You know you should better read it yourself. Every santece starts with: Russia ........(follows what bad thing is done by Russia).I see.
Georgia remained uninvolved
___________________________________________
Let’s look at another phobia – xenophobia in Russia, and what the same author who wrote notes on “a shield of a passport” said about it:
“In various recent opinion polls in Russia, more than 50 percent of the respondents supported the "Russia for Russians" slogan. By “Russians,” these respondents mean not the citizens of the Russian Federation, but only ethnic Russians (russkie), preferably with a "Slavic face."
Cryptic or open racism has deeply infiltrated the Russian society. Racist arguments have made their way into both violent youth sub-cultures and prime-time television shows. Many Russians would see representatives of both ethnic Georgians and Ossetians as equally alien elements when meeting them within the ethnic Russian heartland. The idea that the ethnic Russian population is deeply sympathetic to the fate of the South Ossetians in Georgia, even if they are citizens of the Russian Federation, is unconvincing. Having been largely silent for many years about what the Russian federal armed forces have been doing to the Chechens since 1994, Russians should not take offense if the outside world does not give much credibility to their alleged humanitarian alarm about what is happening in the Caucasus these days."
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Russia has certainly many domestic problems unsolved. But the war can make them even worse.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - SiD - 10-10-2008
Yalta1945 Wrote:I see.
___________________________________________
Let’s look at another phobia – xenophobia in Russia, and what the same author who wrote notes on “a shield of a passport” said about it:
“In various recent opinion polls in Russia, more than 50 percent of the respondents supported the "Russia for Russians" slogan. By “Russians,” these respondents mean not the citizens of the Russian Federation, but only ethnic Russians (russkie), preferably with a "Slavic face."
Cryptic or open racism has deeply infiltrated the Russian society. Racist arguments have made their way into both violent youth sub-cultures and prime-time television shows. Many Russians would see representatives of both ethnic Georgians and Ossetians as equally alien elements when meeting them within the ethnic Russian heartland. The idea that the ethnic Russian population is deeply sympathetic to the fate of the South Ossetians in Georgia, even if they are citizens of the Russian Federation, is unconvincing. Having been largely silent for many years about what the Russian federal armed forces have been doing to the Chechens since 1994, Russians should not take offense if the outside world does not give much credibility to their alleged humanitarian alarm about what is happening in the Caucasus these days."
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Russia has certainly many domestic problems unsolved. But the war can make them even worse.
Protecting our citizens wont make anything worse than it is.
Now autor is using our internal problems to justify his rusophobia and anti russian attitude.
There is problem yes, i am for example not xenophobic. intersting does autor knows how many nationalities are presented in Russia? Who were his respondents? i havent heard this slogan for a long time becouse it is just foolish. This problem came not from emptines it has some roots. There are many ethnic criminal gangs in Russia. Many crimes are commitet by foreigners and some of other nationalities are acting outregeus making ethnic russians feel insulted.
I strongly believe that it is GOVERNMENT responsability. And it must be hold responsible not people of other nationality at imidiete reach. Corruption helps much to make problem worse and sometimes even creating it.
Anyway it is no excuse for rusophobia that autor shown.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Yalta1945 - 10-12-2008
SiD Wrote:Your citizens established their government on the territory of another sovereign state and they seek to hand over this territory to Russia. There is no other place on the Earth where fraction of foreign state’s citizens decides on handing over the territory of their living to another state.Yalta1945 Wrote:I see.Protecting our citizens wont make anything worse than it is.
___________________________________________
Let’s look at another phobia – xenophobia in Russia, and what the same author who wrote notes on “a shield of a passport” said about it:
“In various recent opinion polls in Russia, more than 50 percent of the respondents supported the "Russia for Russians" slogan. By “Russians,” these respondents mean not the citizens of the Russian Federation, but only ethnic Russians (russkie), preferably with a "Slavic face."
Cryptic or open racism has deeply infiltrated the Russian society. Racist arguments have made their way into both violent youth sub-cultures and prime-time television shows. Many Russians would see representatives of both ethnic Georgians and Ossetians as equally alien elements when meeting them within the ethnic Russian heartland. The idea that the ethnic Russian population is deeply sympathetic to the fate of the South Ossetians in Georgia, even if they are citizens of the Russian Federation, is unconvincing. Having been largely silent for many years about what the Russian federal armed forces have been doing to the Chechens since 1994, Russians should not take offense if the outside world does not give much credibility to their alleged humanitarian alarm about what is happening in the Caucasus these days."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Russia has certainly many domestic problems unsolved. But the war can make them even worse.
SiD Wrote:Now autor is using our internal problems to justify his rusophobia and anti russian attitude.
You probably have it written in your algorithm of conducting discussions: IF no argument can be found to respond to the opponent’s opinion, THEN accuse him of russophobia. All right, IF you call offsiders “Russophobes”, THEN how do you call insiders? “People’s enemies” OR “Country’s enemies” OR “Motherland’s traitors”? Wasn’t it Politkovskaya who was given one of these labels before she was killed on the day of Putin’s birthday (a gift to the president). Two years passed since her murder, and this is how people answer to the question what has changed in Russia:
Igor Yakovenko, Secretary General of the Russian Union of Journalists Wrote:Of course the country changed for the worse.
Alexander Podrabinek, editor-in-chief of the Prima-News information agency Wrote:I would say that over these two years, those tendencies which first surfaced after Politkovskaya’s murder became more readily apparent. They were exhibited in all their force. Before, the authorities allowed for violence against individual people, and today they don’t stop at violence against neighboring countries. The celebration of insolence and cynicism is marching ahead at full speed. The authorities are only growing stronger in this celebration
Mikhail Kriger, human rights activist Wrote:Freedom and truth have become scarcer. There is not one person who you can count on, knowing that he won’t betray you. There is less justicePaul Klebnikov, another journalist critical of the Kremlin, was also shot dead. Yuri Shchekochikhin was poisoned.
According to Reporters Without Borders, an international organization of journalists, 21 journalists have been murdered since March 2000. In 2007, the International News Safety Institute said Russia was the country with the second largest number of journalists killed in the previous 10 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia
Shchekochikhin used to be a member of the pro-democratic Interregional Group in the USSR Congress – together with Nobel prize winner Andrei Sakharov, Galina Starovoitova, Yuri Afanasyev, Gavriil Popov, Anatoly Sobchak, Sergei Stankevich, and Boris Yeltsin. Galina Starovoitova was shot dead, and these were members of Zhirinovski’s party who made it. The same party lifted later the main suspect in Litvinenko’s murder case to the second place on their list in Russian parliamentarian elections. Sobchak, Putin’s former mentor at the university, died in Kaliningrad after having tea with a man who had served in GRU and KGB, a close friend (as he said) of Putin. ((Even Stankevich who didn’t seem to fight imperialistic tendencies in Russia had to ask for asylum in Poland a few years ago. Y. Afanasyev, an active critic of Putin’s politics, had to eventually leave Rector’s place at his university for political reasons, too.)) That’s the reality in Russia: those whom the central government dislikes are in great danger.
This abusive power exists thanks to you, Russian chauvinists and imperialists.
Now I got why there is no opposition to you on this forum from Russia. People are scared of being traced by the state if they start posting anti-Kremlinist statements on the internet.
SiD Wrote:intersting does autor knows how many nationalities are presented in Russia? Who were his respondents? i havent heard this slogan for a long time becouse it is just foolish.Calm down, it may be Russian not the Western science that substitutes research by propaganda. Strange enough, we see meetings of Russian fascists, racistic beatings of foreigners on the streets in Russia, burning their apartments - all it appears on our TV periodically - but you pretend to know nothing of that. Maybe, you don't know that while Russian propaganda was making a lot of noise about the monument to Soviet soldier in Tallinn in 2005, while Russia was organizing provocations and riots in Estonia, neither similiar actions of moving remains of those who died in WW2 to a more proper place in Russia, nor even the existence of the monument to the Russians allied with Nazis in WW2 did not get any response from the Russian government. The monument to Russian Nazi collaborators in Moscow was broken down by private persons in 2007.
SiD Wrote:I strongly believe that it is GOVERNMENT responsability. And it must be hold responsible not people of other nationality at imidiete reach. Corruption helps much to make problem worse and sometimes even creating it.That's maybe the key the problem that your government is always vested with such powers that make citizens defenseless against abuses of power. Citizens are daunted by "Vertical vlasti" that triumphs over any check-and-balances in practice.
SiD Wrote:Anyway it is no excuse for rusophobia that autor shown.Again your favourite refrain. IF no argument can be found, THEN IF your opponent is offsider - make an accusation of russophobiam, ELSE call him/her “People’s enemy”, “Country’s enemy”, AND “Motherland’s traitor”.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Yalta1945 - 10-12-2008
Why Kosovo is different from South Ossetia
Citizens of Kosovo identify themselves as a separate national unit in need of independency. They do not accept citizenship of any other state and they do not declare any wish to join any other state.Russian citizens in South Ossetia do not fight for their independence – they fight for dependence as they want to join the Russian state. It’s an annexation plan for Russia. Even if Russian official for some reasons do not hurry to accept it, more important is however that the leaders of South Ossetian separatists declared their wish of joining Russia long ago and they repeated it just recently. There is no other place on the Earth where fraction of foreign state’s citizens decides on handing over the territory of their living to another state.
Before the declaration of dependence on Russia, actions of ethnic cleansing were perpetrated against ethnic Georgians who used to form a considerable part of population of South Ossetia until they were driven out of their homes and turned into refugees seeking shelters in other parts of Georgia. The same happened in Abkhazia where ethnic Georgians used to be in majority before the fighting. It’s not normal when some Russian citizen - who calls himself president of South Ossetia –seeks for annexation of the Georgian territory.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - SiD - 10-12-2008
Yalta1945 Wrote:Your citizens established their government on the territory of another sovereign state and they seek to hand over this territory to Russia. There is no other place on the Earth where fraction of foreign state’s citizens decides on handing over the territory of their living to another state.
S Osetians established thier own country that is now independent. If you try to ignore thier existance ot thier ability to deside thier own destiny it just speaks about your full ignorance, nothing else.
Yalta1945 Wrote:You probably have it written in your algorithm of conducting discussions: IF no argument can be found to respond to the opponent’s opinion, THEN accuse him of russophobia. All right, IF you call offsiders “Russophobes”, THEN how do you call insiders? “People’s enemies” OR “Country’s enemies” OR “Motherland’s traitors”? Wasn’t it Politkovskaya who was given one of these labels before she was killed on the day of Putin’s birthday (a gift to the president). Two years passed since her murder, and this is how people answer to the question what has changed in Russia:
If outor is writing rubbish than i call it rubbish. Than i explain to you why it is rubbish. my argument is simple if there is some internal problem with some rithraf it doesnt mean that one can exagerete it like this autor and you.
Than follows your fantasies and speculations and such about different things and people. You should better check how many people die every day and parhaps you want to investigate all of them? You will find some hidden global organization i am sure
. And of course there are SO MANY NAZI burning and killing that you cant even go to street :haha . And of course we cant call rusophob - rusophob even if he is obviusly rusophobic just becouse he is foreigner.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Yalta1945 - 10-12-2008
SiD Wrote:After cleansings from ethnical Georgians a fraction of local Ossetians led by a man from the Soviet nomenklatura ranks was put in charge of the affair of cutting off the part of the sovereign state of Georgia and handing it over to Russia. You know it well yourself that these are Russian citizens and Russian army who did it all. You lie that they are "S.Ossetians" and you know it. You must also heard that there are more Ossetians living in Georgia than in the province of S. Ossetia. These are just Russian citizens backed by Russian army in S.Ossetia who participate in the aggression against Georgia. Russia does not differentiate if they are inhabitants of Georgia or of North Ossetia or of any other place in Russia. As I showed in the previous comments, this was a long-term Russia’s war against Georgia. It did not start this year. There is no other place on the Earth where fraction of foreign state’s citizens decides on handing over the territory of their living to another state. You are obviously the aggressors, and if it were some smaller state, this aggression would have been stopped by the West long ago. This aggression became possible because Russia found a collaborator in Chechnya who assisted Putin in crushing the resistance of Chechens against the Russian military. Now the collaborator even named a street after Putin’s name (although he could name it after Politkovskaya). It’s sure “the brave new Russia” is not going to stop – just the West needs to see many more thousands murdered and, perhaps, some more territories or countries occupied before they realize it.Yalta1945 Wrote:Your citizens established their government on the territory of another sovereign state and they seek to hand over this territory to Russia. There is no other place on the Earth where fraction of foreign state’s citizens decides on handing over the territory of their living to another state.
S Osetians established thier own country that is now independent. If you try to ignore thier existance ot thier ability to deside thier own destiny it just speaks about your full ignorance, nothing else.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - SiD - 10-12-2008
Yalta1945 Wrote:After cleansings from ethnical Georgians a fraction of local Ossetians led by a man from the Soviet nomenklatura ranks was put in charge of the affair of cutting off the part of the sovereign state of Georgia and handing it over to Russia. You know it well yourself that these are Russian citizens and Russian army who did it all. You lie that they are "S.Ossetians" and you know it. You must also heard that there are more Ossetians living in Georgia than in the province of S. Ossetia. These are just Russian citizens backed by Russian army in S.Ossetia who participate in the aggression against Georgia. Russia does not differentiate if they are inhabitants of Georgia or of North Ossetia or of any other place in Russia. As I showed in the previous comments, this was a long-term Russia’s war against Georgia. It did not start this year. There is no other place on the Earth where fraction of foreign state’s citizens decides on handing over the territory of their living to another state. You are obviously the aggressors, and if it were some smaller state, this aggression would have been stopped by the West long ago. This aggression became possible because Russia found a collaborator in Chechnya who assisted Putin in crushing the resistance of Chechens against the Russian military. Now the collaborator even named a street after Putin’s name (although he could name it after Politkovskaya). It’s sure “the brave new Russia” is not going to stop – just the West needs to see many more thousands murdered and, perhaps, some more territories or countries occupied before they realize it.
So S Osetians do not exist
they are just Russian citizens :haha . Interesting dont you want to search some information about georgian- S Osetian conflict (1918 - 1920) ? They wanted to join Soviet country in the begining of previus century, they have all rights to want join Russia now.Our government has responsability to defend national interests and its citizens, so i see no reasons to stop.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Yalta1945 - 10-12-2008
SiD Wrote:A bit too old and :offtopic (off topic) Did Georgians not answer to this question? I guess they are able to answer once again if needed.Yalta1945 Wrote:After cleansings from ethnical Georgians a fraction of local Ossetians led by a man from the Soviet nomenklatura ranks was put in charge of the affair of cutting off the part of the sovereign state of Georgia and handing it over to Russia. You know it well yourself that these are Russian citizens and Russian army who did it all. You lie that they are "S.Ossetians" and you know it. You must also heard that there are more Ossetians living in Georgia than in the province of S. Ossetia. These are just Russian citizens backed by Russian army in S.Ossetia who participate in the aggression against Georgia. Russia does not differentiate if they are inhabitants of Georgia or of North Ossetia or of any other place in Russia. As I showed in the previous comments, this was a long-term Russia’s war against Georgia. It did not start this year. There is no other place on the Earth where fraction of foreign state’s citizens decides on handing over the territory of their living to another state. You are obviously the aggressors, and if it were some smaller state, this aggression would have been stopped by the West long ago. This aggression became possible because Russia found a collaborator in Chechnya who assisted Putin in crushing the resistance of Chechens against the Russian military. Now the collaborator even named a street after Putin’s name (although he could name it after Politkovskaya). It’s sure “the brave new Russia” is not going to stop – just the West needs to see many more thousands murdered and, perhaps, some more territories or countries occupied before they realize it.Interesting dont you want to search some information about georgian- S Osetian conflict (1918 - 1920) ? They wanted to join Soviet country in the begining of previus century, they have all rights to want join Russia now.
SiD Wrote:Our government has responsability to defend national interests and its citizens, so i see no reasons to stop.Your interests should find proper borders. Your citizens have no right to tear apart other sovereign states.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - SiD - 10-12-2008
Yalta1945 Wrote:A bit too old and (off topic) Did Georgians not answer to this question? I guess they are able to answer once again if needed.
It is quite related. Thier desire to join Russia appeared not yestarday and not 10 years ago, it was when Putin wasnt even in project even before USSR was fully formed.
Yalta1945 Wrote:Your interests should find proper borders. Your citizens have no right to tear apart other sovereign states.
Our interests are in proper borders. Besides S Osetia is independent state now and can deside its own destiny.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - M.Helen - 10-13-2008
Is it possible that in the next following years South Ossetia is recognized by other countries than Russia? I am not speaking about Cuba or other Russia's allies, I'm talking about European states. What if tomorrow Russia will hand in an ultimatum making Europeans recognize S. Ossetia in order to maintain gas supplying.