Quote:Shut up, and don't wright foolish posts...It will help you, I think....

lashachochua Wrote:I think here russians and pro-russians make mass.........You have all see how their aggression has increased after they found that EU is not going to provide sanctions

chena Wrote:Independent,

The fact is that Saakashvili had just one choice to respond immediately or to postpone Russian provocation. This is unfortunate truth, I am far from being the supporter of Saakashvili and his policies but in this case I don’t think he really had options. Who knows…

The main problem is that Russia is becoming (if not became) neo-Nazi/Bolshevik country that is not factious danger. The country is led by a person who’s idol is Stalin. Tell me what could be worse? On the contrary to Germany of 1930s Russia is much bigger, it is one of the biggest oil suppliers. The latest could be enough to control Europe. The question is not whether to cooperate or not with Russia, the question is whether Europe is ready to face and deal with new Stalin (i.e. Putin). Russia’s only purpose in this war was not to punish Georgia and it’s obvious, it’s more to make a statement: “I am back and I am alive. Iosif Visarionovich Stalin (Putin)”.

Also, I am against any kind of military operation against Russia, this would be guaranteed WWIII, but western politicians should make sure that Stalin won’t reincarnate.

Faw_Peter Wrote:

lashachochua Wrote:I think here russians and pro-russians make mass.........You have all see how their aggression has increased after they found that EU is not going to provide sanctions

Of course they are angey when the entire world believes they are the agressors, and not Georgia.

independent Wrote:

chena Wrote:Independent,

The fact is that Saakashvili had just one choice to respond immediately or to postpone Russian provocation. This is unfortunate truth, I am far from being the supporter of Saakashvili and his policies but in this case I don’t think he really had options. Who knows…

The main problem is that Russia is becoming (if not became) neo-Nazi/Bolshevik country that is not factious danger. The country is led by a person who’s idol is Stalin. Tell me what could be worse? On the contrary to Germany of 1930s Russia is much bigger, it is one of the biggest oil suppliers. The latest could be enough to control Europe. The question is not whether to cooperate or not with Russia, the question is whether Europe is ready to face and deal with new Stalin (i.e. Putin). Russia’s only purpose in this war was not to punish Georgia and it’s obvious, it’s more to make a statement: “I am back and I am alive. Iosif Visarionovich Stalin (Putin)”.

Also, I am against any kind of military operation against Russia, this would be guaranteed WWIII, but western politicians should make sure that Stalin won’t reincarnate.

I can understand Your point of view - really. I also understand that there are all kind of historical reason
to feel anger against Russia. But the only way we can make any progress with Russia is co-operation in
so many levels as possible - and doing business and joint ventures with them. There simply isn't any other
way. So I really found it sad when some countries are making relations worse - because they think they
are legitimated to take revenge of something which has happened 50-70 years ago.
For me it is not rational thinking.
In Georgian conflict Saakashvili was not the only one to blame .But it is needless to expect Russia and US
to admit that they have both acted wrongly. They never take responsibility of that.
Hating Russia or US doesn't help a bit - they are what they are - superpowers.

Quote:in russian case, whatever ideology they provide, countries will not trust.....

lashachochua Wrote:But in russian case, whatever ideology they provide, countries will not trust.........

lashachochua Wrote:Independent don,t you remember the last cases about large foreign Businesses in Russia....How PM said, if General Director is not comeing for health problems, we will have to send a doctor....Are you sure that this is the way....I am not........

independent Wrote:

lashachochua Wrote:But in russian case, whatever ideology they provide, countries will not trust.........

If we think so they have no reason even to try to change their behavior. So it certainly is
not the right way to view them.

independent Wrote:

lashachochua Wrote:Independent don,t you remember the last cases about large foreign Businesses in Russia....How PM said, if General Director is not comeing for health problems, we will have to send a doctor....Are you sure that this is the way....I am not........

Yes I'm 100% sure - it is not difficult to do business with russians - as long as You don't become too avid yourself.

Faw_Peter Wrote:

Quote:in russian case, whatever ideology they provide, countries will not trust.....

that's what I'm talking about. EU perceives Russian actions as negative, regardless of their outcome.

lashachochua Wrote:Ok, we can think that for a small period of time they might be able to get back to their power, but from history we know that long-run real superpower were only those who managed to provide attractive ideology, like in the case of the USA.....

independent Wrote:

lashachochua Wrote:Ok, we can think that for a small period of time they might be able to get back to their power, but from history we know that long-run real superpower were only those who managed to provide attractive ideology, like in the case of the USA.....

You see when the term Superpower comes to use it meant simply a country having enough nuclear
weapons to destroy the hole world. Btw. I don't agree that US provides attractive ideology anywhere
else than inside US.

lashachochua Wrote:It is possible, but there are times when in deep heart somewhere we always beleive American Dream, but not russian dream...........

SiD Wrote:

lashachochua Wrote:It is possible, but there are times when in deep heart somewhere we always beleive American Dream, but not russian dream...........

Russian dream? Whats that?
I remember the joke that american dream is to work hard and be wealthy, famous and happy russian dream is to do nothing and be wealthy, famous and happy. .

lashachochua Wrote:Independent from yesterday i am thinking what happened in taiwan IThilind) :quoi in 1997, I guess it was something vital and I am ashamed, but cann you tell me what happened...

SiD Wrote:

lashachochua Wrote:It is possible, but there are times when in deep heart somewhere we always beleive American Dream, but not russian dream...........

Russian dream? Whats that?
I remember the joke that american dream is to work hard and be wealthy, famous and happy russian dream is to do nothing and be wealthy, famous and happy. .

independent Wrote:

lashachochua Wrote:Independent from yesterday i am thinking what happened in taiwan IThilind) :quoi in 1997, I guess it was something vital and I am ashamed, but cann you tell me what happened...

Then it is pretty long story - I can give You only some basic idea:

From the end of 1980 US made a lot effort to export democracy(free market) to Thailand - as You
now it is on of US longtime allies (bases etc). When Thailand opened its markets its "economy"
begins to rise quickly (called one of The Asian Tigers)
When US exports "democracy" the economic growth always becomes of building houses. Which
gives a lot of work - > Which make wages to rise -> Which make people to borrow money and
by new homes -> which rises the real estate prices.
Ok in the middle of 90 there was clearly overheated economy - but for some reason the bubble
didn't burst (but economy was really in the edge). Then a business man George Soros begin
to play big game with Thai bourse. And managed basically to bankruptcy hole country ( he ofcourse
made himself a huge profit). Ordinary people paying their debts for decades.

So why I mentioned Thailand when we spoke about Western democracy - is simply the fact
that it seems to mean that first everything seems good - and then when You have used to
earn well and payng Your new house they come and fleece You.

lashachochua Wrote:There is no any russian dream, Be Ok .... There is nothing bad that you do not know it That;s what i am talking, at least russia needs RUSSIAN DREAM in order to get back to its POWER :-) :-)

independent Wrote:

lashachochua Wrote:Independent don,t you remember the last cases about large foreign Businesses in Russia....How PM said, if General Director is not comeing for health problems, we will have to send a doctor....Are you sure that this is the way....I am not........

Yes I'm 100% sure - it is not difficult to do business with russians - as long as You don't become too avid yourself.

independent Wrote:

lashachochua Wrote:Independent from yesterday i am thinking what happened in taiwan IThilind) :quoi in 1997, I guess it was something vital and I am ashamed, but cann you tell me what happened...

Then it is pretty long story - I can give You only some basic idea:

From the end of 1980 US made a lot effort to export democracy(free market) to Thailand - as You
now it is on of US longtime allies (bases etc). When Thailand opened its markets its "economy"
begins to rise quickly (called one of The Asian Tigers)
When US exports "democracy" the economic growth always becomes of building houses. Which
gives a lot of work - > Which make wages to rise -> Which make people to borrow money and
by new homes -> which rises the real estate prices.
Ok in the middle of 90 there was clearly overheated economy - but for some reason the bubble
didn't burst (but economy was really in the edge). Then a business man George Soros begin
to play big game with Thai bourse. And managed basically to bankruptcy hole country ( he ofcourse
made himself a huge profit). Ordinary people paying their debts for decades.
So why I mentioned Thailand when we spoke about Western democracy - is simply the fact
that it seems to mean that first everything seems good - and then when You have used to
earn well and payng Your new house they come and fleece You.

SiD Wrote:

lashachochua Wrote:There is no any russian dream, Be Ok .... There is nothing bad that you do not know it That;s what i am talking, at least russia needs RUSSIAN DREAM in order to get back to its POWER :-) :-)

First of all it is you who mantioned this mythic russian dream that is why i was qurius, now you tell there is none, do you even care what you are talking?

lashachochua Wrote:This story I know friend, I thought something political happened there.......You know I do not think that the financial crise was due to increasing house prices and problem like subprime....But the result was really bad for people due to increased interest rates......Now we miss one important point......Do you think that USA government controls huge not only american Financial companies.....USA still could not managed to control its own Financial Markets in the USA.....The markets of Financial derivatives are very complicated..... So the financial crises are the only crises that are not created by Governments......But official information surely largely effects financial markets......The mass effect is one of the main problems in such cases....Just everyone decided to invest because everyone was investing there......This is how in general we are getting to financial crises........So democracy is not connected to this problem....If not democracy do you beleive the this assian country managed the progress he made......