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+--- Thread: Georgia and South Ossetia at war (/thread-1703.html)
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - lashachochua - 08-28-2008
Giovane Wrote:lashachochua Wrote:Benn Wrote:What I meant by saying Russians live in Abkhazia and South Ossetia is - pro-Russians. I didn't mean people who hold Russian citizenship. Though, I think these people would be happy to have it.
benn about 80% of native population are dispalced from their homes....The logical brain should demand that these people should get back......is it so difficult to understand....See my comments about history of Abkhazia, this was alweays georgian teritory, we are not going to loose it.....It will never happen
You know ,this 'native' population appered only in 1930's by Stalin's and Beria order (they was georgians)....
See my comment about this....You are telling boolshit, based on historical sources I provided the population of Georgians and Abkhazians fom 1889......So stop bullshitting please....You do not undestand this topic.....See my comment
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-28-2008
lashachochua Wrote:The USA was the first who realized that it is time for virtual globalization....It is time to democratize the world and this sense to stay in global power as a ideological leader.....This period can be called virtual globalization.....Based on all these modern western countries will not give russia possibility by economic means to get to world superpower.....Ideology, this is modern weapon of global governance
Ok and further: this virtual globalisation is export of "western democracy" - which is nothing but maximizing
and protecting our profits - with terms we decide and others must accept. = Money
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - lashachochua - 08-28-2008
independent Wrote:lashachochua Wrote:The USA was the first who realized that it is time for virtual globalization....It is time to democratize the world and this sense to stay in global power as a ideological leader.....This period can be called virtual globalization.....Based on all these modern western countries will not give russia possibility by economic means to get to world superpower.....Ideology, this is modern weapon of global governance
Ok and further: this virtual globalisation is export of "western democracy" - which is nothing than maximizing
and protecting our profits - with terms we decide and others must accept. = Money
sorry man, I tried to explain....If you do not agree it is your job....
But democracy is not profit maximizing..........I am an economist and I really know what does it mean....It is pitty if you get to money after my logics....May be its my fault I couold not managed to explain you something....But now I am tired of thinking....tomorrow I ll try to explain better.....
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - lashachochua - 08-28-2008
Bye independent, I am almost sleeping, take care man
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-28-2008
lashachochua Wrote:sorry man, I tried to explain....If you do not agree it is your job....
But democracy is not profit maximizing..........I am an economist and I really know what does it mean....It is pitty if you get to money after my logics....May be its my fault I couold not managed to explain you something....But now I am tired of thinking....tomorrow I ll try to explain better.....
Ok, nice dreams
Tomorrow (later today) please explain how Your democracy theory suits to Thailand 1997. I lived there that
time and I must say it was a valuable lesson to see how it worked in practice.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - SiD - 08-28-2008
Are other problems just dissapeard? I mean West and Russia are on verge of the cold war becouse of situation in S Osetia, but will it help anyone to face treats of modern world? Parhaps there are non?
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-28-2008
SiD Wrote:Are other problems just dissapeard? I mean West and Russia are on verge of the cold war becouse of situation in S Osetia, but will it help anyone to face treats of modern world? Parhaps there are non?
I think this situation is a good excuse to avoid real problems...
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - SiD - 08-28-2008
independent Wrote:SiD Wrote:Are other problems just dissapeard? I mean West and Russia are on verge of the cold war becouse of situation in S Osetia, but will it help anyone to face treats of modern world? Parhaps there are non?
I think this situation is a good excuse to avoid real problems...
Well i think that real problems are not so easy to avoid. After all if you ignore problem it can become a treat.
Us and EU can support Georgia but what would they get from it? New base for NATO? New little democracy?
But it surely will spoil relationship with Russia. And as conventional wisdom teaches friend of my enemy is not my "best friend" to say the least.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Benn - 08-29-2008
Saakashvili's recent words at an interview to the Italian channel RaiUno:
"We feel ourselves a European country, we prefer to be ruled by Europe than to be Russia's slaves"
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - SiD - 08-29-2008
Benn Wrote:Saakashvili's recent words at an interview to the Italian channel RaiUno:
"We feel ourselves a European country, we prefer to be ruled by Europe than to be Russia's slaves"
Are those EXACT words told by him? If so than it is strange, no leader of INDEPENDENT country should say that.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Eka - 08-29-2008
Benn Wrote:Saakashvili's recent words at an interview to the Italian channel RaiUno:I was looking for link but can not find it. BENN help - link!!! were it is?
"We feel ourselves a European country, we prefer to be ruled by Europe than to be Russia's slaves"
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Tamsa - 08-29-2008
When the power of love overcomes the love of power,the world will know peace!!
for brainwashed and Zombie Russians!!!
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Lenus - 08-29-2008
SiD Wrote:Benn Wrote:Saakashvili's recent words at an interview to the Italian channel RaiUno:
"We feel ourselves a European country, we prefer to be ruled by Europe than to be Russia's slaves"
Are those EXACT words told by him? If so than it is strange, no leader of INDEPENDENT country should say that.
Tell that to Abkhazian and South Ossetian presidents.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Hakan G - 08-29-2008
Eka Wrote:Benn Wrote:Saakashvili's recent words at an interview to the Italian channel RaiUno:I was looking for link but can not find it. BENN help - link!!! were it is?
"We feel ourselves a European country, we prefer to be ruled by Europe than to be Russia's slaves"
Benn is speculating, as usually..
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-29-2008
So it seems we didn't have to wait until 01.09 - Just read that EU is not going
to make any sanctions against Russia....
France has no intention come up with any, and not a single EU country have
demanded any sanctions. So they probably will repeat their earlier comments.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Giovane - 08-29-2008
You know ,this 'native' population appered only in 1930's by Stalin's and Beria order (they was georgians)....[/quote]
IIvan .. sit down!
2 in history! As your president Putin have already mark 2.( CNN)
YOu probably dont hear about Geogain nobels named SHErvashidze, anchabadze and so on..
During past 4-5 centyrise they were nobel families of ABXAZETI - EGRISI.
You hear something about Moskovia? than moskovia grew and become huge country =RUSSIA. WE were GEORGIA when you Russian were only _MOSKOVIA , and Egrisi( ABXAZET) and SIDA KARTLI were georgian teritory during last many-many ears. Stalin was idiot. He gaves you feeling that you can be Empire after revolution. I was dreaming that Russian solgers blow up his statue in Gori, but they were puting folwers there. So Stalin is more Russian than Goergian. We dont like him. And you Russian make him " FACE of Russia" by internet polling . So he have done nothing good for us , only problems, but for Russia he have done many things.
Does not matter. Georgian Stalin bild you Empire in 20-th centyre and Georgia case will ruin it in 21 -th. :-)[/quote]
And nevertheless you shouldn't deny fact 'bout movement in 1930's. It's all good known fact that 's hard by such famouse and respectable wrighter as F. Iskander....
So, I should tell you that Russian Empire was eralier USSR.....
And your attemps to present Georgia so as "GEORGIA when you Russian were only _MOSKOVIA ..." only recall a smile. For example, Grece was more erlier and what??
Although I had rad enciclopedia and couldn't find your historical information. I could find that Abkhazia incorporate in your empire even West Gergia an VIII century......
Lasha. do you think that I will search and read you posts before to wright my post?????
Taska, Zombi is only you unfortunately....
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - chena - 08-29-2008
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://michaeltotten.com/">http://michaeltotten.com/</a><!-- m -->
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - chena - 08-29-2008
Giovane Wrote:You know ,this 'native' population appered only in 1930's by Stalin's and Beria order (they was georgians)....IIvan .. sit down!
2 in history! As your president Putin have already mark 2.( CNN)
YOu probably dont hear about Geogain nobels named SHErvashidze, anchabadze and so on..
During past 4-5 centyrise they were nobel families of ABXAZETI - EGRISI.
You hear something about Moskovia? than moskovia grew and become huge country =RUSSIA. WE were GEORGIA when you Russian were only _MOSKOVIA , and Egrisi( ABXAZET) and SIDA KARTLI were georgian teritory during last many-many ears. Stalin was idiot. He gaves you feeling that you can be Empire after revolution. I was dreaming that Russian solgers blow up his statue in Gori, but they were puting folwers there. So Stalin is more Russian than Goergian. We dont like him. And you Russian make him " FACE of Russia" by internet polling . So he have done nothing good for us , only problems, but for Russia he have done many things.
Does not matter. Georgian Stalin bild you Empire in 20-th centyre and Georgia case will ruin it in 21 -th. :-)[/quote]
And nevertheless you shouldn't deny fact 'bout movement in 1930's. It's all good known fact that 's hard by such famouse and respectable wrighter as F. Iskander....
So, I should tell you that Russian Empire was eralier USSR.....
And your attemps to present Georgia so as "GEORGIA when you Russian were only _MOSKOVIA ..." only recall a smile. For example, Grece was more erlier and what??
Although I had rad enciclopedia and couldn't find your historical information. I could find that Abkhazia incorporate in your empire even West Gergia an VIII century......
Lasha. do you think that I will search and read you posts before to wright my post?????
Taska, Zombi is only you unfortunately....[/quote]
Giovani or Vania (I dont know)
when you say that Georgians moved to Abkhazia in 1930, make an effort and check russian sources (at least)! Do us (all forum members) a favour please, it is not about different opions, it's about false and true. you may think that Russia has right to invade other country (it's up to you) but when you use arguemnts make sure they are accurate.
Эгриси или Лазское царство (груз. ეგრისი) – одно из ранних грузинских царств на южном Кавказе (известно древним грекам и римлянам как Лазика, персам – как Лазистан), достигшее своего расцвета в период между VI веком до н.э. и VII веком н.э. Занимало территорию бывшего Колхидского царства и территорию современной Абхазии. По сведениям античных авторов, во II в. Лазика находилась к северу от устья реки Чорох.
В IV веке правители Эгриси подчинили себе население северной Колхиды (сванов, апсилов, абазгов). Значительными городскими центрами были: столица Эгриси - Археополис (современное Накалакеви), Родополис (современное Варцихе), Вашнари, Петра (современное Цнхисдзири), Апсар (современное Гонио) и др. В IV-VI вв. в Лазике происходило формирование феодальных отношений.
Во времена своего существования Эгриси большей частью было вассальным царством Византийской империи, изредка переходившим под власть империи Сасанидов. Территория царства с VI в. была ареной войн между Византией и Ираном. По договору 562 года Лазика осталась в зависимости от Византии. В VIII веке Лазика вошла в состав Абхазского царства.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - chena - 08-29-2008
Абха́зское ца́рство — раннефеодальное государство в Закавказье с центром в Анакопии (Новый Афон), с 806 - в Кутатиси (Кутаиси).
Правящая династия Аносидов происходила из князей абхазского княжества Абазгии, которые присоединили земли соседних Санигии, Апсилии и Мисиминии, создав единое государство. В 786 абхазский князь (архонт) Леон II выходит из протектората Византии и объявляет себя царём. В 778 в результате династического брака с пресёкшейся династией Лазского царства (ветвь Сасанидов) абхазские Аносиды присоединили Лазику, то есть всю Западную Грузию вплоть до Лихского хребта. Но уже вскоре пресекается сама династия Аносидов, и к власти, являясь наследником абхазских царей по матери, приходит южногрузинский правитель Баграт из династии Багратидов. Начиная с 1008, в Абхазском царстве постепенно лидирующая роль переходит к картвелам, то есть восточногрузинскому языку и культуре. Вплоть до царствования Тамары Великой в титулатуре царей на первом месте стояло наименование "Царь абхазов". С конца XII века меняется название царства на Грузинское.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - chena - 08-29-2008
Even though I can't say that articles I provided are very accurate...but you can also check this website.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.world-history.ru/countries_about/2262.html">http://www.world-history.ru/countries_about/2262.html</a><!-- m -->
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Giovane - 08-29-2008
And nevertheless you shouldn't deny fact 'bout movement in 1930's. It's all good known fact that 's hard by such famouse and respectable wrighter as F. Iskander....
So, I should tell you that Russian Empire was eralier USSR.....
And your attemps to present Georgia so as "GEORGIA when you Russian were only _MOSKOVIA ..." only recall a smile. For example, Grece was more erlier and what??
Although I had rad enciclopedia and couldn't find your historical information. I could find that Abkhazia incorporate in your empire even West Gergia an VIII century......
Lasha. do you think that I will search and read you posts before to wright my post?????
Taska, Zombi is only you unfortunately....[/quote]
Giovani or Vania (I dont know)
when you say that Georgians moved to Abkhazia in 1930, make an effort and check russian sources (at least)! Do us (all forum members) a favour please, it is not about different opions, it's about false and true. you may think that Russia has right to invade other country (it's up to you) but when you use arguemnts make sure they are accurate.
quote]
Ok, Chena....
3. Подселение в «сталинско-бериевский» период крестьян из Западной Грузии в этнически абхазские районы страны, для чего специально была создана организация «Абхазпереселенстрой». К данной группе относятся, главным образом, исторические провинции Бзып и Абжуа. В этот период идёт активное плановое переселение целых колхозов и отдельных крестьянских хозяйств, прежде всего, из соседней с Абхазией Мегрелии, а также Лечхума, Имеретии, Рачи, Гурии и Сванетии. Выбор именно этнически абхазских районов для вселения крестьян из Грузии, очевидно, преследовал цель ассимиляции оставшегося абхазского населения в грузинской этнической среде.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - chena - 08-29-2008
Giovane Wrote:And nevertheless you shouldn't deny fact 'bout movement in 1930's. It's all good known fact that 's hard by such famouse and respectable wrighter as F. Iskander....
So, I should tell you that Russian Empire was eralier USSR.....
And your attemps to present Georgia so as "GEORGIA when you Russian were only _MOSKOVIA ..." only recall a smile. For example, Grece was more erlier and what??
Although I had rad enciclopedia and couldn't find your historical information. I could find that Abkhazia incorporate in your empire even West Gergia an VIII century......
Lasha. do you think that I will search and read you posts before to wright my post?????
Taska, Zombi is only you unfortunately....
Giovani or Vania (I dont know)
when you say that Georgians moved to Abkhazia in 1930, make an effort and check russian sources (at least)! Do us (all forum members) a favour please, it is not about different opions, it's about false and true. you may think that Russia has right to invade other country (it's up to you) but when you use arguemnts make sure they are accurate.
quote]
Ok, Chena....
3. Подселение в «сталинско-бериевский» период крестьян из Западной Грузии в этнически абхазские районы страны, для чего специально была создана организация «Абхазпереселенстрой». К данной группе относятся, главным образом, исторические провинции Бзып и Абжуа. В этот период идёт активное плановое переселение целых колхозов и отдельных крестьянских хозяйств, прежде всего, из соседней с Абхазией Мегрелии, а также Лечхума, Имеретии, Рачи, Гурии и Сванетии. Выбор именно этнически абхазских районов для вселения крестьян из Грузии, очевидно, преследовал цель ассимиляции оставшегося абхазского населения в грузинской этнической среде.[/quote]
istochnik?
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - EU1 - 08-29-2008
Could you translate it into English. I undersatnd nothing
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Yalta1945 - 08-29-2008
Giovane Wrote:Подселение в «сталинско-бериевский» период ...You'd better be less pricky! Willing to comment on the whole history of Russification and colonialism in Tsarist and Communist Russia (USSR)? I am especially curious to see you knowledge on colonisation of the Baltic States under Stalin.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - chena - 08-29-2008
also could you please add to your comment fact about giving priorities and allowances to Abkhaz population since 1850s? For example abkhaz men would not be taken to army during Tsar period, abkhaz had priorities over Georgians in gettin apartments, better jobs and so on during soviet period. Forcing Georgian population to change the nationaliyt in their passports and become abkhaz (otherwise they had to leave).
I think only after these facts we will have complete pitcture to talk about