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+--- Thread: Georgia and South Ossetia at war (/thread-1703.html)
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Lenus - 08-23-2008
independent Wrote:You can argue - but indeed agreement can be understood so that when most of units are moved out itYou must be joking. So, if 51% is out, the Troops are out?
has been kept. Saakashvili is "understanding" that agreement very differently from others.
Quote:You are simply wrong - the agreement is very inaccurate with thatI know Russians hace another agreement. You must read the real agreement carefully before posting.
Quote:They are perfectly satisfied how russians have withdrawn.
You have lost the point:
Georgia started a war at the same time when other countries were focused to openings of Olympic games.
- You lost that war - and now Your government is still acting like they have something to say. - NOPE
In this moment You should stay silent and feel shame of Yourself.
Your Country is not occupied, but that's not because of Your "heroic" government or army - but rather
despite of them.
It is not occupation? Why, because you were not allowed by West to bomb Tbilisi? or you didn't have enough time to construct concentration camps? I told you this country is not Chechnya. its a sovereign nation. You cannot march in the sofereign country. It is illegal
.Quote:You and Your lists..... You know that is just pathetic :deg
Oh Sorry for asking for prooves., I should have taken just Russians words.
Of course sir, I apologise.
So , IS ThERE A LIST OR NOT???
Quote:I don't know about russians, but I can see already now that there are some Georgians like Youself who are
not capable to understand the truth. Even when it has been clearly shown to them.
I think you just copy my words from other posts. Not nice. Stop it. Think of your own ideas.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - chena - 08-23-2008
I don't know about russians, but I can see already now that there are some Georgians like Youself who are
not capable to understand the truth. Even when it has been clearly shown to them.
So continue Your stupid adventure - next time there will not be any attempt from EU or NATO to settle
conflict down.
If You think that European majority ever accept attack to civilians like You did in Tskhinvali - You better
think it again. Saakashvili telling it was justified is not good enough reason for us - not even close. :nonnon
We feel compassionate to ALL civil victims - but we don't feel so against Your government. For us they
seems to be nothing but madmen.[/quote]
European Uninon let Russia to kill hundreds of thousands civilians Chechens along with thousands of Russian (when they've set up "Chechen terrorist attack" in Moscow), EU let Russians and Abkhazians kill thousands of Georgians in Abkhazia. I'll give you two examples: a Kazak soldiers cuts a belly of a pregnant woman kill her unborn baby in front of dying mother, Russian soldiers are playing football - ball is a head of a Georgian.
Listening to you I've discovered a new type of phobia, Geophobia - if thousands of Georgians are killed that's ok, who cares, Moscow had to do that in order to protect its country. But when an Ossetian or Abkhazian is killed, even one of them, that's genocide. Do not get me wrong I do not justify killing of civilians whether they are Ossetians or Abkhazians (death is evenly painful for all), but I do not understand why is it OK to kill Georgian.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - chena - 08-23-2008
Julia Wrote:Hello, everybody. This article is written by lawer from Georgia. Sorry for russian language.
Немой укор.
Только что закончилась прямая трансляция концерта симфонической музыки в городе Цхинвали. Проникая в сердца простых людей, бессмертная музыка Чайковского врачевала рубцы, которые исцелить в состоянии только чудо. И это чудо сотворил Валерий Гергиев. Не высказывания политиков, не гуманитарная помощь (которая несомненно нужна), ни даже извинения виновных в этой трагедии не смогли бы возыметь того эффекта, который вызвала в душах людей бессмертная классическая музыка.
Если Вы смотрели трансляцию, то не могли не обратить внимания на глаза людей. Людей, познавших вкус горя и потерь. Они особенные. Вы когда нибудь заглядывали в такие глаза? Забыть их сложно.
Очень сложно забыть глаза матерей, похоронивших своих детей...
Еще сложнее забыть глаза малышей, чей взгляд не по возрасту серьезен...
И невозможно забыть глаза мужчин, отворачивающихся от телекамер, чтобы скрыть скупую слезу...
И если Вы хоть раз смотрели в такие глаза, то Вы поймете, что у них нет национальности. У этих глаз есть только боль. Боль, которая не идет ни в какое сравнение с физической болью. Та самая боль, исцелить которую невозможно таблетками или мазью. И немой укор: "за что?!"
И в такие минуты понимаешь, что правда не за этими важными людьми в высоких кабинетах. Правда в этих глазах простых людей. Они - предупреждение всему миру, говорящие громче всяких слов, что жизнь каждого человека является наивысшей ценностью, какой бы национальности он не был: осетин, грузин, русский или абхаз. И это не красивые слова из текста Конституции. Посмотрите еще раз в эти глаза и Вы поймете, что важнее всего в нашем мире.
Когда оркестр брал последние аккорды, я взглянул еще раз в глаза людей. И я не увидел там озлобления и желания мстить. Врачующая сила музыки начала свое благородное дело. Когда нибудь, спустя десятилетия (а может и столетия), эта трагедия будет лишь двумя страницами в учебнике истории. И как же хочется пожелать будущему поколению, знать о войне лишь по книгам, а не по глазам этих повзрослевших детей.
Очень хочется сегодня больше не писать ничего, а просто вместе с Вами помолчать, слушая Чайковского и молясь о погибших. О погибших осетинах, о погибших грузинах, о погибших русских. Просто о погибших людях. Помолчу, чуть попозже, когда один из бравых прыщавых молодчиков исполнит свои смелые угрозы и отомстит мне за "антипатриотичные" настроения. А пока я немного поговорю, потому что жизнь мне подарила счастье общаться с такими людьми, как например Владимир Соловьев, глядя на поступки которых понимаешь, что молчать, потому что опасно говорить, это слишком низко, шкурно и не правильно.
Сегодня в Центральном доме журналиста прошла пресс-конференция на тему: "Грузины против политики Саакашвили". Вместе с Вашим покорным слугой, свою позицию высказали Владимир Хомерики (доктор экономических наук, профессор, кавалер ордена Чести Грузии, Посол мира, Президент конгресса национальных объединений России), Журули Нугзар Борисович (врач, доктор медицинских наук, профессор), Авалишвили Юрий Григорьевич (вице-президент творческого союза профессиональных художников России), Цагарели Давид Васильевич (Зам. председателя правления фонда "Единения русского и грузинского народа"). И все мы вместе, отвечая на вопросы журналистов, объяснили свою позицию, почему мы виним в происшедшем Михаила Саакашвили и почему мы считаем, что он должен найти в себе хоть немного чести и оставить пост президента Грузии.
Думаю что текст обращения будет опубликован в печатных СМИ, так как журналистов на мероприятии присутствовало не мало. Я же пока хочу разом ответить на те вопросы, которые мне задают мои друзья, знакомые и просто люди из Грузии: "Почему я обвиняю только одного Саакашвили? Почему я не говорю ничего о Медведеве, о Кокойты? Разве бывает в войне только одна виноватая сторона?"
Отвечаю - нет, не бывает. Но есть существенная разница. И я сейчас попробую пояснить, в чем я ее вижу.
Я вижу существенную разницу в том, что российский президент действовал в интересах России (или российских граждан, что в принципе одно и то же). Предвижу возражение, что массовая раздача российских паспортов в Южной Осетии и Абхазии как раз преследовали эту цель. Хорошо, давайте забудем о том, что у большинства осетин было российское гражданство. Допустим не было этого. Были несколько погибших русских миротворцев. Ладно, пойдем еще дальше: был ОДИН погибший или взятый в плен русский солдат-миротворец. И вот ради этого ОДНОГО миротворца на территорию Грузии вошла 58-я армия. Допустим, что это так. В чьих интересах действовал главнокомандующий? В интересах своей страны. Подождите, пока не надо говорить мне, что он вторгся на территорию суверенного государства, сначало дослушайте до конца. Итак, Медведев, действуя в интересах СВОЕЙ страны, ввел в Грузию войска. Хорошо. Разобрались. Он действовал в интересах СВОЕГО государства.
А теперь, что называется, почувствуйте разницу:
Михаил Саакашвили. Заявлял и продолжает заявлять о единой Грузии и о территориальной целостности Грузии. Отлично. Тогда у меня возникает вопрос - а Цхинвали, это территория Грузии? А осетины - это жители Грузии? Ну ведь мы говорим о единой Грузии, не так ли? Значит это тоже Грузия. То есть, президент Грузии из установок "град", ночью бомбил свой город? Грузинский город Цхинвали, так? Какая интересная вырисовывается картина, не правда ли... Президент бомбит и уничтожает город, который он считает своей территорией. То есть по сути, он вредит своему государству. Возникает вопрос - а зачем? Вот мы и подошли к главному. Затем, что Грузия для Михаила Саакашвили не страна, ради которой он готов отдать свою жизнь, а полигон, на котором "дядюшка Сэм" будет проверять - насколько далеко пойдет Россия? Испугается или покажет зубы? Только вот зубы то лязгнули не у рук "дядюшки Сэма"... И 58-я армия стоит не в штате Кентукки, а в городе Гори. Да простят меня древние римляне, но уж очень мне это напоминает поступок императора Нерона, сжегшего Рим, чтобы обвинить в этом христиан. Цель не всегда оправдывает средства, но похоже Нерон и Саакашвили об этом не знали. Сжечь Цхинвали, чтобы спровоцировать Россию, чтобы Запад получил возможность обвинять ее во всех смертных грехах. Сколько ради этого было погублено жизней? Не-е, Майклу проще подсчитать, сколько это в долларах США. Вот она разница, друзья мои. Разница в том, что США действовали в своих интересах. Россия действовала в своих интересах. А Саакашвили действовал не в интересах Грузии. Поэтому я не имею никакого права обвинять ни США ни Россию - они оба защищали свои геополитические интересы. Но я имею право обвинять Саакашвили, потому что он действовал не в интересах Грузии. Даже если поверить в то, что Саакашвили провоцировал Кокойты - это не оправдание, чтобы из установки "град" сносить весь город. Ответ неадекватен и вина в этом вновь на Саакашвили.
Ясно теперь, мои дорогие бывшие друзья, отказавшиеся подавать мне руки при встрече, мои дорогие этнические земляки, знакомые и просто подростки, присылающие анонимные угрозы? Теперь Вам понятно, почему виноват Саакашвили, а не Медведев и не Буш? На всяких случай, еще раз, для дебилов:
Медведев действовал в интересах СВОЕЙ страны.
Буш действовал в интересах СВОЕЙ страны.
Саакашвили действовал в интересах кого угодно, но не Грузии. Саакашвили, заявляя о территориальной целостности, тем самым признавая Цхинвали частью Грузии - градом выжег этот город. Саакашвили бомбил часть СВОЕЙ страны. Возразите, что из Цхинвали обстреливали грузинские села? А если бы сто бандитов засели бы в Хашури, или в Кутаиси или в Зугдиди и оттуда бы стреляли по полиции в соседних селах - Саакашвили бы тоже отдал приказ разбомбить эти города ночью установкой "град"? Нет? А в чем разница? Ведь это все единая Грузия, не так ли батоно Миша? Если Вы не позволили бы себе подобное с другими городами Грузии, почему позволили себе это с Цхинвали, раз считаете это такой же грузинской территорией?!
Таким образом, имено Саакашвили, своей бездарной политикой и бесчеловечным отношением к народу, поставил под угрозу территориальную целостность Грузии, Именно он подставил грузин, спровоцировав вход 58-й армии. Кровь грузин, осетин и русских, погибших в этой войне на его совести (если она у него вообще есть).
И не забывайте еще, родные мои грузины, кровь от крови моей: Католикос-Патриарх всея Грузии, Святейший и Блаженнейший Илья Второй обучался в духовной семинарии Сергиево-Троицкой Лавры (Загорск, Россия), а не в штате Кентукки и не в Алабаме.
И Вахтанг Кикабидзе стал известен в России и Грузии, а не в США. И здесь, в России любят и смотрят его фильмы и ходят на его концерты (правда не знаю, пойдут ли впредь). А американцы знать не знают, кто есть Буба.
И князь Багратиони известен и уважаем в России, а не в США. И ни в одной стране НАТО нет станции метро или улицы его имени.
Наши два народа сражались против фашистской Германии, у нас одни общие могилы неизвестного солдата, у нас слишком много общего, чтобы из за одного маразматика, забыть обо всем хорошем, что нас связывало. А поэтому я верю: Грузия и Россия никогда не станут врагами. А что до Саакашвили - врядли ему будет прощение от грузинского, русского и осетинского народа.
В завершение темы, хочу сказать спасибо всем грузинам, написавшим мне в личку, что полностью поддерживают мои мысли и передают их в Тбилиси своим близким, которые так же солидарны со мной. Спасибо всем русским, которые не отождествляют режим Саакашвили с грузинским народом. Спасибо сотруднику МЧС, простому парню Мише, который звонит каждый день и спрашивает "Шота, у тебя все хорошо? Я просто буду тебе звонить каждый вечер, просто говори что все нормально и я положу трубку". А моим знакомым, которых я считал друзьями или близкими, но которые отвернулись от меня за высказанную мной позицию, хочу сказать теперь уже я: руки не Вы мне не подадите, а я не подам. Потому что не считаю Вас грузинами. Вы такие же предатели грузинского народа, как и сам Саакашвили.
P.S. В конце хочу дать ссылку на блог Табриза, в котором размещены новые переводы статей Владимира Соловьева на английский язык. И вновь я обращаюсь с просьбой к тем, у кого есть возможность: перешлите это в мировые средства массовой информации, своим друзьям зарубежом, партнерам по бизнесу. Люди за пределами России должны знать правду.
Ссылка на статьи: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://blogs.mail.ru/mail/shakhidi_tabriz/3C8D49E9F99A9EFE.html">http://blogs.mail.ru/mail/shakhidi_tabr ... A9EFE.html</a><!-- m -->
I have never supported Saakashvili, I do realize the mistake he did but not because Georgia does not have a right to protect its citizens (the ones in villages which were heavily bombed on 5th and 6th August). As I get it OK only for Russia to protect its citizens (even fake ones). His mistake is underestimating the level of terrorism and evil of Russian empire. Unfortunately civilians are paying for Saakashvili’s and Putin’s (actual president) sick egos. But now in front of one enemy it is not the right time to discuss what Saakashvili did, we should make sure that Georgia won’t repeat mistakes and Europe will learn the lesson (Georgian’s paid for).
This is such a pro-Russian propaganda of someone who's trying to save his a.. in Russia. All these false, cheesy stories about Russian-Georgian friendship…they are really not impressive. Why author is not mentioning that Georgian church (one of the first orthodox churches in the world since 4th century) was taken over by Russian one, most of unique Georgian frescos were deleted in churches and over painted by Russian ones, and Georgian church songs were prohibited. So how does it coincide with the idea of friendship between two nations? How about Georgian territories given out by Russians to Turkey, Azebaijan, Armenia and Russia (Sochi)? How about paying Aga Mahomet Han to destroy Georgia? What about annexing Georgia in 1801 and 1921, killing Georgians in 1956 and 1989 1992, 1993 and 2008?
Tell me where is the Russian patriarch? Pope Benedict raised his voice against killing of innocent people including Georgians, where is the Russian Church?
Please tell me another story about friendship between two nations
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-23-2008
chena Wrote:European Uninon let Russia to kill hundreds of thousands civilians Chechens along with thousands of Russian (when they've set up "Chechen terrorist attack" in Moscow), EU let Russians and Abkhazians kill thousands of Georgians in Abkhazia. I'll give you two examples: a Kazak soldiers cuts a belly of a pregnant woman kill her unborn baby in front of dying mother, Russian soldiers are playing football - ball is a head of a Georgian.
Listening to you I've discovered a new type of phobia, Geophobia - if thousands of Georgians are killed that's ok, who cares, Moscow had to do that in order to protect its country. But when an Ossetian or Abkhazian is killed, even one of them, that's genocide. Do not get me wrong I do not justify killing of civilians whether they are Ossetians or Abkhazians (death is evenly painful for all), but I do not understand why is it OK to kill Georgian.
Killing civilians is NEVER acceptable. It doesn't make any difference who do it. But You don't see the
point: Georgian army attacked blindly to against all Tskhinvali people - It didn't attack against those who
You tell where provoking them. It is a clear violation of Human Rights.
To kill Georgian people because of what their government did is not a bit more acceptable - thats why
EU and NATO are trying to stop violence as soon as possible - but You think that it is done because
we found Your behavior to be right. NOPE
We don't support Your views or politic - we are only trying to limit damages made because of it as
much as possible.
When You tell we are supporting Your politics - You indeed insult us.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - IamGEORGIA - 08-23-2008
independent Wrote:chena Wrote:European Uninon let Russia to kill hundreds of thousands civilians Chechens along with thousands of Russian (when they've set up "Chechen terrorist attack" in Moscow), EU let Russians and Abkhazians kill thousands of Georgians in Abkhazia. I'll give you two examples: a Kazak soldiers cuts a belly of a pregnant woman kill her unborn baby in front of dying mother, Russian soldiers are playing football - ball is a head of a Georgian.
Listening to you I've discovered a new type of phobia, Geophobia - if thousands of Georgians are killed that's ok, who cares, Moscow had to do that in order to protect its country. But when an Ossetian or Abkhazian is killed, even one of them, that's genocide. Do not get me wrong I do not justify killing of civilians whether they are Ossetians or Abkhazians (death is evenly painful for all), but I do not understand why is it OK to kill Georgian.
Killing civilians is NEVER acceptable. It doesn't make any difference who do it. But You don't see the
point: Georgian army attacked blindly to against all Tskhinvali people - It didn't attack against those who
You tell where provoking them. It is a clear violation of Human Rights.
To kill Georgian people because of what their government did is not a bit more acceptable - thats why
EU and NATO are trying to stop violence as soon as possible - but You think that it is done because
we found Your behavior to be right. NOPE
We don't support Your views or politic - we are only trying to limit damages made because of it as
much as possible.
When You tell we are supporting Your politics - You indeed insult us.
Are you NATO or EU representative? :mrgreen:
Not everybody, but most of them is on georgian side..i mean europian population..
and political support is on georgian side..
If you think that support of siria, cuba, and venesuela really mean something, its your problem..definetely not mine..
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Mila - 08-23-2008
Hi, Lenus!
Lenus Wrote:Mila Wrote:You don't trust Russian mass media? Fine. But you can't accuse Euronews of being pro-Russian.By the way, that is exactly what we do.
It was announced by Georgian State Minister, so don't hold your breath for Euronews impartiality.
O really? Yesterday Chena said that Euronews was a Russian-owned channel and tried to convince me that the picture of a peaceful city that I see is not true because of the Russian translation is not appropriate, as if the translation can influence the picture on the screen... By the way, I don't know why she was so confident that I was watching it with a Russian translation. Trust me, not only Georgians can watch Euronews in English.
Now you are telling me that Euronews is pro-Russian just because 'it was announced by Georgian State Minister". Like it doesn't matter that Euronews has been showing a lot about Prague-1968 lately, definitely hinting on parallels, it doesn't matter that all this time they showed interviews with the Georgian Minister of foreign affairs and with Saakashvilli, it doesn't matter that when in "no comment" they showed the concert in Tshinvali organized by Gergiev, the title said something like "A concert to support the independence", but they didn't show the entrance part where he said that the concert is dedicated to people who died and survived and didn't say a word about independence from Georgia...
All this definitely makes Euronews pro-Russian just because your Minister says so... Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds?
Lenus Wrote:Section 5 probably.Maybe. Unlike IamGeogia I am not saying that I've seen the original of the document. So you may be right, but the number of the Section doesn't change its content, does it?
Lenus Wrote:And why are you not interested with POti? Not a georgian city?
I am very much interested in Poti, but I don't have any information on the Russian soldiers there. So I can't say anything about it. But what I can say is that today not only Euronews, but even American media showed and wrote how 2 American war ships with humanitarian aid are approaching Poti. I don't know why these quilts, mattresses and clothes are so precious that they have to be brought by war ships... Well, as I said, the truth will come out sooner or later. So let's just wait and see, what will come out of all this.
Lenus Wrote:Sarkozi said enough.
O, did he? Please give me a link, where he confirms this telephone call which the American spokesman is talking about or any other link were he said that Russia didn't withdraw as agreed after Russia claimed that the withdraw is complete. And, again, as I said, there is so much pressure on him from both sides, that if he finally gives in to one of them, I really won't be surprised.
Lenus Wrote:Truth? Do you Russians know the meaning of the word? :mrgreen:Well, how come you are so sure that you do?
You are are saying "You cannot blind everyone." Well, to me you look blinded already.
You are muting all your arguments by some strange things you say. And the expressions you and others to whom I wrote yesterday use, such as "bloody Russians" and etc. (I don't even want to repeat them) just add more dark paint to this sad picture.
Please don't get me wrong. I don't blame you for anything. I agree with Terry. It is understandable why you guys are so upset and emotional. But it doesn't make your words true and worth trusting. Well, at least for me... Sorry...
It is such a shame that politicians are playing their dirty games, and common people suffer.
With deep respect to you and all common Georgians, Osetinians, Americans, Russians and that of other nations,
Mila
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-23-2008
IamGEORGIA Wrote:Are you NATO or EU representative? :mrgreen:
Not everybody, but most of them is on georgian side..i mean europian population..
and political support is on georgian side..
If you think that support of siria, cuba, and venesuela really mean something, its your problem..definetely not mine..
You have pretty strange point of view.
EU countries: UK, Sweden, Poland and Baltic ones are the only ones who can be counted PARTIALLY to
support You. Indeed even they were mostly blaming Russia of unproportional responce against Georgias
attack. So You should think again what it means.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - IamGEORGIA - 08-23-2008
independent Wrote:IamGEORGIA Wrote:Are you NATO or EU representative? :mrgreen:
Not everybody, but most of them is on georgian side..i mean europian population..
and political support is on georgian side..
If you think that support of siria, cuba, and venesuela really mean something, its your problem..definetely not mine..
You have pretty strange point of view.
EU countries: UK, Sweden, Poland and Baltic ones are the only ones who can be counted PARTIALLY to
support You. Indeed even they were mostly blaming Russia of unproportional responce against Georgias
attack. So You should think again what it means.
?? Is it not enough? Ukraine, Romania, and Turkey as well...
When russia has no support at all..
and i dont understand what partially means..
They recognize teritorial integrity of georgia..thet agree that russia tried to occupy georgia..they plan to change russian peacekeepers with international forces..what else we want...That is support..
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - SiD - 08-23-2008
IamGEORGIA Wrote:Are you NATO or EU representative? :mrgreen:
Not everybody, but most of them is on georgian side..i mean europian population..
and political support is on georgian side..
If you think that support of siria, cuba, and venesuela really mean something, its your problem..definetely not mine..
Tell me what speaks more loudly word or deed?
Quote:If you think that support of siria, cuba, and venesuela really mean something, its your problem..definetely not mineWhat means support of the west? besides your fantasies of course.
YOU WERE BEATEN IN FRONT OF WORLD. But you soooo glad that they are calling us aggressors and you victim. And of course all your problems just disapiered after thier words. You should better consult with reality not with somebodies "planes" or words.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-23-2008
IamGEORGIA Wrote:independent Wrote:?? Is it not enough? Ukraine, Romania, and Turkey as well...
.
I supposed we are talking about EU countries....
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - IamGEORGIA - 08-23-2008
SiD Wrote:IamGEORGIA Wrote:Are you NATO or EU representative? :mrgreen:
Not everybody, but most of them is on georgian side..i mean europian population..
and political support is on georgian side..
If you think that support of siria, cuba, and venesuela really mean something, its your problem..definetely not mine..
Tell me what speaks more loudly word or deed?
Quote:If you think that support of siria, cuba, and venesuela really mean something, its your problem..definetely not mineWhat means support of the west? besides your fantasies of course.
YOU WERE BEATEN IN FRONT OF WORLD. But you soooo glad that they are calling us aggressors and you victim. And of course all your problems just disapiered after thier words. You should better consult with reality not with somebodies "planes" or words.
deed that comes after word..
Support mean they have pressure now on russia not on georgia..
They are involved in Georgia - Russia conflict , and not in Georgia - S. Ossetia any more..
russia is conflict side from now..and has no right to have peacekeepers..and support is that they are ready to send here international peacekeepers..
Unlike russia, recognize teritotorias integrity and souveregnity..
etc
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-23-2008
IamGEORGIA Wrote:Support mean they have pressure now on russia not on georgia..
They are involved in Georgia - Russia conflict , and not in Georgia - S. Ossetia any more..
russia is conflict side from now..and has no right to have peacekeepers..and support is that they are ready to send here international peacekeepers..
etc
We are giving pressure and acting for acquiring peace - not against russia or advocating Georgia.
IamGEORGIA Wrote:Unlike russia, recognize teritotorias integrity and souveregnity..
etc
Hm, and thats why it is not mentioned in the agreement... Sure - You are mastermind
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - SiD - 08-23-2008
IamGEORGIA Wrote:deed that comes after word..
Support mean they have pressure now on russia not on georgia..
They are involved in Georgia - Russia conflict , and not in Georgia - S. Ossetia any more..
russia is conflict side from now..and has no right to have peacekeepers..and support is that they are ready to send here international peacekeepers..
Unlike russia, recognize teritotorias integrity and souveregnity..
etc
Sorry but besides moral and humanitar support there is still nothing else.
OOOh they are not talking about S Osetia... BUT WE ARE, that would be enough.
You saw thier pressure in action? impressed? I am not.
Parhaps they are ready to send someone ther but without agreement with us they wont interfere.
Anyway it is called pragmatism. You should see for deeds done not planned or promised to be done in bright unknown future.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - IamGEORGIA - 08-23-2008
independent Wrote:IamGEORGIA Wrote:Support mean they have pressure now on russia not on georgia..
They are involved in Georgia - Russia conflict , and not in Georgia - S. Ossetia any more..
russia is conflict side from now..and has no right to have peacekeepers..and support is that they are ready to send here international peacekeepers..
etc
We are giving pressure and acting for acquiring peace - not against russia or advocating Georgia.
IamGEORGIA Wrote:Unlike russia, recognize teritotorias integrity and souveregnity..
etc
Hm, and thats why it is not mentioned in the agreement... Sure - You are mastermind
maybe..maybe don they care much about georgia..but they can now freely oppose russia..and be against them..
It is not legal document or international act..
Its agreement between two sides..as i guess..
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Lor - 08-23-2008
independent Wrote:IamGEORGIA Wrote:independent Wrote:?? Is it not enough? Ukraine, Romania, and Turkey as well...
.
I supposed we are talking about EU countries....
A bit ignorant... Romania is a EU member... :livre
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-23-2008
IamGEORGIA Wrote:maybe..maybe don they care much about georgia..but they can now freely oppose russia..and be against them..
You got this totally wrong - We indeed care a lot of ordinary Georgian people. But we don't need
any help to opposite russia - it simply is nothing we want to do - we really don't have any reason
to opposite them - and we are happy if it remains so.
You know - It seems that You and Baltic countries share the vision that EU countries are wanting
some possibility to opposite Russia as they do. Sorry, it is all Your hallucination.
IamGEORGIA Wrote:It is not legal document or international act..[/quote]
Its agreement between two sides..as i guess..
You will soon enough find out what it means...
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Mila - 08-23-2008
To chena:
I am not quoting your post (Today, 11:26) because it is too long.
1. to your small passage about Euronews: yesterday you said that Russia owns it. Today you are talking about 32%. I don't know the exact amount of the share, but even if so, is that what control means to you?
Anyway, I have already written to Lenus about Euronews definitely being not pro-Russian, and have given examples which are not the only ones.
2. to the rest of your post: It really amazed me. Most of it doesn't have anything to do with what I was talking about. You are talking about Geogian independence, Chechnya, Dagestan, Tatarstan, Kalmykia, Kosovo and "many, many more".
I don't see how everything you are saying about all this and the long definition of the word "independence" which you have copied from some book is related to what I was talking about yesterday. I also don't know how the fact that you were stuck in Georgia for last two weeks proves that Russians were not withdrawing yesterday and the day before yesterday from the cities we were talking about.
In the beginning of you post you wrote "to Mila:", but it looks like in most of it you are taking not to me, but to yourself or to someone else. Well, please do, its your right to do this. You are free to say what you have to say. But while doing it, don't try to pretend that you are having a discussion with me. I have stated clearly yesterday what I think about everything you say. A little lie arises big suspicions, you know...
So don't bother to try to convince me in something. Please, leave me alone and go tell all this brainwashing stuff to someone else.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-23-2008
Lor Wrote:A bit ignorant... Romania is a EU member... :livre
I know it - but Ukraine and Turkey are not - so his statement still remains indefinite
uperYou see there have been discussion that Georgians possible did misunderstood what US
was trying to tell them. Now It seems they are doing the same with EU. It might be dangerous
for them.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - IamGEORGIA - 08-23-2008
independent Wrote:Lor Wrote:A bit ignorant... Romania is a EU member... :livre
I know it - but Ukraine and Turkey are not - so his statement still remains indefinite
You see there have been discussion that Georgians possible did misunderstood what US
was trying to tell them. Now It seems they are doing the same with EU. It might be dangerous
for them.
som confusion there..
I was just speaking countries who openly supported us in europne..not about EU members only.. :livre
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Mariam-GEORGIAN - 08-23-2008
Russian Philosophy. Sorry it is in Russian, but I specially addressing it to our russian representatives here.
Comments are wellcomed :mrgreen:
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Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - SiD - 08-23-2008
Well i see sometimes a funny picture. In some posts here and statments of Saakashvili you can almost see how they are telling: hey Europe and US see that big bad bear is attacking us!!! What are you waiting for BITE BITE!!! Be good dogy BITE THEM!!!
Some europeans are telling : GAW!!! GAW!!!
Some are sayng :we are concerned but not your personal bodyguards or hunt dogs we are people with our own heads you know.
Sorry if someone will find it offending.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - IamGEORGIA - 08-23-2008
Mariam-GEORGIAN Wrote:Russian Philosophy. Sorry it is in Russian, but I specially addressing it to our russian representatives here.
Comments are wellcomed :mrgreen:
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:haha :haha
OMG
They have really sick mentality..
Real danger for whole world..
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Karl.in.eu - 08-23-2008
IamGEORGIA Wrote:SiD Wrote:IamGEORGIA Wrote:Are you NATO or EU representative? :mrgreen:
Not everybody, but most of them is on georgian side..i mean europian population..
and political support is on georgian side..
If you think that support of siria, cuba, and venesuela really mean something, its your problem..definetely not mine..
Tell me what speaks more loudly word or deed?
Quote:If you think that support of siria, cuba, and venesuela really mean something, its your problem..definetely not mineWhat means support of the west? besides your fantasies of course.
YOU WERE BEATEN IN FRONT OF WORLD. But you soooo glad that they are calling us aggressors and you victim. And of course all your problems just disapiered after thier words. You should better consult with reality not with somebodies "planes" or words.
deed that comes after word..
Support mean they have pressure now on russia not on georgia..
They are involved in Georgia - Russia conflict , and not in Georgia - S. Ossetia any more..
russia is conflict side from now..and has no right to have peacekeepers..and support is that they are ready to send here international peacekeepers..
Unlike russia, recognize teritotorias integrity and souveregnity..
etc
Is it true that Russia is not permitted to send peacekeepers in the zone only or in the entire world?
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - chena - 08-23-2008
Mila Wrote:To chena:To Mila,
I am not quoting your post (Today, 11:26) because it is too long.
1. to your small passage about Euronews: yesterday you said that Russia owns it. Today you are talking about 32%. I don't know the exact amount of the share, but even if so, is that what control means to you?
Anyway, I have already written to Lenus about Euronews definitely being not pro-Russian, and have given examples which are not the only ones.
2. to the rest of your post: It really amazed me. Most of it doesn't have anything to do with what I was talking about. You are talking about Geogian independence, Chechnya, Dagestan, Tatarstan, Kalmykia, Kosovo and "many, many more".
I don't see how everything you are saying about all this and the long definition of the word "independence" which you have copied from some book is related to what I was talking about yesterday. I also don't know how the fact that you were stuck in Georgia for last two weeks proves that Russians were not withdrawing yesterday and the day before yesterday from the cities we were talking about.
In the beginning of you post you wrote "to Mila:", but it looks like in most of it you are taking not to me, but to yourself or to someone else. Well, please do, its your right to do this. You are free to say what you have to say. But while doing it, don't try to pretend that you are having a discussion with me. I have stated clearly yesterday what I think about everything you say. A little lie arises big suspicions, you know...
So don't bother to try to convince me in something. Please, leave me alone and go tell all this brainwashing stuff to someone else.
To Mila,
The main question was that you really do not realize that Russia has violated the territory of a sovereign country. There is no possible justification for Russia’s actions including misleading informational campaign.
What is your definition of a peaceful city? The city where even hospitals have been bombed, schools are demolished, residential buildings are burnt? That’s what I have seen myself. I am not telling you about tens of villages burnt where nothing is left.
About Chechnya and others, these countries (since Russia is a Federation) have the same right for the self-determination, however I do not think you’ve raised your voice against Chechen people genocide, am I wrong?
At the end, when sarcasm is the only argument then your position has no ground.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - chena - 08-23-2008
Russian soldiers in Georgian barracks.
for those who trust only Russian sources of information.
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