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+--- Thread: Georgia and South Ossetia at war (/thread-1703.html)
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Lor - 08-19-2008
Blame Russia Wrote:Lor Wrote:I just heard that Russians seem to retreat.Today is the extraordinary crisis summit with all the EU and NATO members. I hope this time they will withdraw for REAL! and after that UN will send REAL peacekeepers in Georgia. :angeRetreat? No. It was georgian army who cowardly retreated.
And who are REAL peacekeepers? Americans? Oh, yes, if they could than they would peacekeep evere country in this world. Vietnam, Afghanisthan, Iraq...South Ossetia? Jesus H. Christ, when, WHEN USA shall stop putting its nose into every country, every conflict. When it will value a human life, lifes of their own soldiers, citizens? omg...
Sorry for interrupting you, guys, but
Medvedev didn't broke his word for 3 times. news are telling that he has broke his word for three times. feel the difference
No, i meant UN not US peacekeepers. I guess you don't really like US foreign affairs. Do you? Well nobody does! Their politics are soo similar to Russian ones. But that's what people don't want to see!!The problems is that NOW in Georgia there are no Americans killing people!! Are Russians! Can't blame US for everything!
US and Russia will never stop putting their noses into every country! That's what they do!!I get to the same conclusion like Independent!! I'm ANTI-Superpowers!!
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-19-2008
Lor Wrote:US and Russia will never stop putting their noses into every country! That's what they do!!I get to the same conclusion like Independent!! I'm ANTI-Superpowers!!
So I assume we both feel ourself helpless
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - SiD - 08-19-2008
independent Wrote:Lor Wrote:I'm not surprised!!! Can't never trust what Medvedev says. He already broke his word 3 times!
In west we are always trying to analyze what he mean - Indeed he didn't say anything like
withdrawing russian troops soon. We only want to think he said that.
So - many times it is more reliable to listen what is said - rather than trying to analyze
what is meant.... The same thing happened with discussion Bush-Putin (Sotshi)
Putin said directly that they are going to act ( But it was analyzed to be only for threat )
Independent is right , you Lor see what you want to see.
What do tou think about Saakashvili saing dozen times that it is loughable that Georgia would use force against S Osetia and Abkchazia, and he will use only diplomacy? (I hope that you will write what you think, you not pro Georgian you just concerned EU citizen arent you)
He promised to find diplomatic hours before the attack.
And of course Georgians love Saakashvili becouse he is so good, and Russians love Putin becouse they are brainwashed.
Look what independent is writing his arguments are reasonable.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Mariam - 08-19-2008
independent Wrote:Lor Wrote:US and Russia will never stop putting their noses into every country! That's what they do!!I get to the same conclusion like Independent!! I'm ANTI-Superpowers!!
So I assume we both feel ourself helpless
Well for a while stop this discussion and pay attention to the outome of the meeting in NATO office. I would like to hear your opinion about the outcome of this meeting. Espaciaaly from u INDEPENDENT ;-)
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Lor - 08-19-2008
independent Wrote:Lor Wrote:US and Russia will never stop putting their noses into every country! That's what they do!!I get to the same conclusion like Independent!! I'm ANTI-Superpowers!!
So I assume we both feel ourself helpless
uper :banghead Exactly!!
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Benn - 08-19-2008
here are some of the first news
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.nato.int/docu/update/2008/08-august/e0812a.html">http://www.nato.int/docu/update/2008/08 ... 0812a.html</a><!-- m -->
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Lor - 08-19-2008
SiD Wrote:Independent is right , you Lor see what you want to see.
What do tou think about Saakashvili saing dozen times that it is loughable that Georgia would use force against S Osetia and Abkchazia, and he will use only diplomacy? (I hope that you will write what you think, you not pro Georgian you just concerned EU citizen arent you)
He promised to find diplomatic hours before the attack.
And of course Georgians love Saakashvili becouse he is so good, and Russians love Putin becouse they are brainwashed.
Look what independent is writing his arguments are reasonable.
Sid i somehow found a common language with Independent!!!You're right! He is reasonable! I just find it difficult to communicate with you!! A good communicator is a good listener!! You just don't listen enough to what i say!You twist my words, turn them around and get whatever is convenient, ignoring what is not!
NATO summit today:
Nato Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said: "The future of our relations with Russia will depend on the concrete actions Russia will take to abide by the words of President Dmitry Medvedev... which is not happening at the moment."
Foreign Secretary David Miliband also spoke after the summit, saying:
"The Nato membership was clear that Russia had violated international laws as well as the rules of the international game".
Mr Miliband added that Russia needed to realize that the world had moved "decisively beyond the Soviet era".
What's your opinion?
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Lor - 08-19-2008
I just don't want to OVER analyze what they said!! So please! Help me out!
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - SiD - 08-19-2008
Lor Wrote:I just don't want to OVER analyze what they said!! So please! Help me out!
Lor it is difficult to communicate with someone who asks unkonvinient questions. And i ASKED FOR YOUR opinion not someone elses. You claim you not anti Russian, but when i ask you to condamn same things you condamn in Russia you just say that it is difficult to communicate with me and i twisted your words.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Benn - 08-19-2008
NATO says it backs Georgia integrity, but, why shouldn't the South Osetia be given to Russia if the people who live there want so?
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-19-2008
Lor Wrote:I just don't want to OVER analyze what they said!! So please! Help me out!
Some quotes what was said "No business as usual ---- and a little later as long as Russian troops
remains in Georgia -------- we are not closing (slamming) the door"
It was not very surprising indeed - I know that there must happen something REALLY big before
NATO even thinks to use real force ( not words only ) against Russia. REALLY big is direct conflict
between some major EU country or US itself.
So now it seems that significant withdrawing might take place earliest on Friday - and there will
remain a lot of troops for weeks.
Sorry but for me it seems to go like that.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Benn - 08-19-2008
Independent, which countries do you expect to have direct conflicts?
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Mariam - 08-19-2008
independent Wrote:Lor Wrote:I just don't want to OVER analyze what they said!! So please! Help me out!
Some quotes what was said "No business as usual ---- and a little later as long as Russian troops
remains in Georgia -------- we are not closing (slamming) the door"
THEY HAEV STARTED TO MOVE< RUSSIAN TV SAID, BUT I HAVE TO CHEACK!!!! :-)
It was not very surprising indeed - I know that there must happen something REALLY big before
NATO even thinks to use real force ( not words only ) against Russia. REALLY big is direct conflict
between some major EU country or US itself.
So now it seems that significant withdrawing might take place earliest on Friday - and there will
remain a lot of troops for weeks.
Sorry but for me it seems to go like that.
CAN"T AGREE !!!!!!!!!!
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Lor - 08-19-2008
SiD Wrote:Lor Wrote:I just don't want to OVER analyze what they said!! So please! Help me out!
Lor it is difficult to communicate with someone who asks unkonvinient questions. And i ASKED FOR YOUR opinion not someone elses. You claim you not anti Russian, but when i ask you to condamn same things you condamn in Russia you just say that it is difficult to communicate with me and i twisted your words.
I condemn only Russia and US. I won't condemn little countries that are being maneuvered! They(Russia and US) think that they can play with little countries like kids with toys.I am happy the European countries in NATO opposed US.This proves to the whole world that US=NATO is a stupid stereotype. Maybe now, people will realize that NATO is more of a peacekeeper than Russia.
US left isolated over Nato plans to maintain relations with Russia
The United States has been left diplomatically isolated after European members of NATO moved to reject an American proposal to scale back ties with Moscow following Russia's invasion of Georgia.
I do agree with European position. I don't want another war.
US diplomats attending an emergency NATO summit in Brussels had called on the alliance to suspend ministerial meetings with Russia, held twice a year, as a way of demonstrating the West's disapproval of the war.
But other members of the alliance, including Britain, rejected the plan, saying that it would be foolish to isolate Russia. Instead diplomats released their strongly-worded statement, stopping short of concrete action, at least for now.
David Miliband, the foreign secretary, implicitly criticized Washington's proposal to suspend the Nato-Russia council, established six-years ago to improve dialogue between Moscow and the West, as short-sighted.
"I am not one that believes that isolating Russia is the right answer to its misdemeanours," he said. "I think the right answer is hard-headed dialogue." A French diplomat, however, signaled that Nato was getting fed up with Russia's failure to carry out repeated pledges to withdraw its troops from Georgian territory and warned that the time could come for a re-examination of the West's ties with Moscow.
"We are at risk of entering, if there is not a very rapid evolution on the ground, into a relationship which will be of a different nature to what it was until now," he said.
Russia, however, seemed unfazed by the mounting criticism. Its troops smashed their way into the Black Sea port of Poti, blockaded it and then took 22 Georgian servicemen prisoner.
Russian forces last week used explosives to sink Georgian naval ships and coastguard vessels in the port as part of what appears to be a plan to damage the country's civilian and military infrastructure.
Russia has brought transport and the passage of goods, including oil bound for the West, to a halt by blowing up an important railway bridge, closing down the country's main highway and attempting to bomb a crucial BP pipeline.
There was also little sign of a Russian military withdrawal from other towns in undisputed Georgian territory where, far from pulling out, troops have been digging trenches and building concrete barricades.
Russia yesterday warned that its withdrawal was being hampered by Georgia's refusal to abide by the terms of a French-brokered ceasefire to pull back its own forces to positions held before the fighting erupted.
"Such actions seriously complicate the general situation and impede the withdrawal process," Gen Anatoly Nogovitsyn said.
With Russia in control of much of the country, there has been little sign of Georgian forces attempting to return to the positions they fled after suffering a crushing victory on the battlefield.
Russian troops, on the other hand, have taken advantage of the truce to advance within 25 miles of the Georgian capital Tbilisi.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-19-2008
Mariam Wrote:CAN"T AGREE !!!!!!!!!!
Mariam, please tell me a little more precise what You mean :?
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-19-2008
Lor Wrote:I am happy the European countries in NATO opposed US.This proves to the whole world that US=NATO is a stupid stereotype. Maybe now, people will realize that NATO is more of a peacekeeper than Russia.
US left isolated over Nato plans to maintain relations with Russia
The United States has been left diplomatically isolated after European members of NATO moved to reject an American proposal to scale back ties with Moscow following Russia's invasion of Georgia.
I do agree with European position. I don't want another war.
Agree with You - isolating Russia can give them more profits than reverse.
And Yes with that NATO showed it is not only US - so we can trust it.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Benn - 08-19-2008
US must be isolated from this conflict. It's not their continent!
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-19-2008
Benn Wrote:US must be isolated from this conflict. It's not their continent!
You know there is only one Earth - and it belongs to all of us. So global tensions concerns
all countries and peoples in whatever continent.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Benn - 08-19-2008
yes, but US always imposes its position as being a core one. This is what I meant.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-19-2008
Btw. Today OSCE and Russia has settled that there wil be sent
ca. 100 OSCE peace controller. ( 10 from Finland ). I assume
they will be there really soon.
Already today there will be 30 of them in Georgia
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-19-2008
Benn Wrote:yes, but US always imposes its position as being a core one. This is what I meant.
When You expand it to concern all big countries (e.g. Russia) - I agree
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - SiD - 08-19-2008
Lor Wrote:I condemn only Russia and US. I won't condemn little countries that are being maneuvered! They(Russia and US) think that they can play with little countries like kids with toys.I am happy the European countries in NATO opposed US.This proves to the whole world that US=NATO is a stupid stereotype. Maybe now, people will realize that NATO is more of a peacekeeper than Russia.
I think you can consult with Serbia how great peacekeeper NATO is.
OOh poor little countries, they are so little and qute
. If country is little that soesnt mean it is weak or will allow enyone to use themselves in some Big Bad Countries games.Russia responded to US intentions cant you see that?
Well can i assume that people in US are brainwashed too? Or they were just desieved? Isnt it kind if brainwashing to make them believe that Sadam have WMD.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Lor - 08-19-2008
SiD Wrote:Lor Wrote:I condemn only Russia and US. I won't condemn little countries that are being maneuvered! They(Russia and US) think that they can play with little countries like kids with toys.I am happy the European countries in NATO opposed US.This proves to the whole world that US=NATO is a stupid stereotype. Maybe now, people will realize that NATO is more of a peacekeeper than Russia.
I think you can consult with Serbia how great peacekeeper NATO is.
OOh poor little countries, they are so little and qute
Russia responded to US intentions cant you see that? Can you please be more explicit about US intentions?
Well can i assume that people in US are brainwashed too? Or they were just desieved? Isnt it kind if brainwashing to make them believe that Sadam have WMD.
People in US are 90% or more against Bush. There are demonstrations on the streets everyday protesting against the Iraq War. People whose family or friends died in that war for no reason. Plus the economy went down since Bush spent sooo much money for the war. SO people in US are very unhappy! Thank God new elections are coming!
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - SiD - 08-19-2008
THAT IS IT LOR!!!!! WE ONLY OCCUPIED?!!!!! LOOK AT OUR HISTORY!!!!
DURING WW2 WE WERE FIGHTING FOR SURVIVAL!!!! HOW MANY WE HAVE LOST!!!!! MILLIONS!!! ENEMY COULD SEE CREMLIN EVEN!!!! WE WERE ON SOMEONE ELSES TERRITORY?!!! DO YOU KNOW ABOUT STALINGRAD? Nazi wanted to destroy our nation!!! Our forces in Georgia are NOTHING comparing to nazi occupation. Point me another nation who lost so many people defending themselves! IF we geven up you would speak german now!
If you chek history you can see that Russia was conquered by mongols.
Do you know about Minin and Pogarskiy?
I think Napoleon has never been in Russia,yes?
We have LONG history of triumphs and disaster.
If 90% americans are against Bush what kind of democracy is it?!!! He was ELECTED End of story!!!
US supported and supporting Georgia to join NATO that is intentions.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - independent - 08-19-2008
Lor Wrote:Can you please be more explicit about US intentions?
You didn't ask from me, but I still give my 5 cents...
There indeed exists few US intentions in Georgia:
1) Azerbaijan oil - or more clearly the only oil pipe not crossing russian territory
2) Enlargement of NATO - New member have to use huge amount of money for
weapons, even before they are accepted ( Georgia used 15% of GDP yearly ).
And those weapons are mostly bought from US
3) Increased tension also make it possible for US to deploy Missile Shields to
former USSR countries ( Poland already accepted it ). Those shields can
however protect only US itself ( people just don't understand it ).
Shortly - US intentions: money and own security
So both Russia and US has their own hidden interest in this area