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+--- Thread: Georgia and South Ossetia at war (/thread-1703.html)
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Tamar - 08-17-2008
You better look at your president and politicions, they repeat the same phrases, I bet they are learning them in advance and then keep saying them over and over again, and its very funny to see the reaction of the journalists who understand that there is no sense of asking questions to these people. God, people, recall what Medvedev said about Saakashvili when they had the conference with Sarkozi, I with my own ears have heard what comment the CNN and BBC journalists had on this, that this is not the language the president should use. So better look at your president!
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Vitiumm - 08-17-2008
2 Tamara
you claim Russian leaders of being uneducated,but as far as I know Mr Putin has graduated from KGB school,ain't it the organiation that 20 years after being terminated makes US and East European countries shiver at night?!
PS Medvedev is not my president,I'm Spanish,sorry.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Tamar - 08-17-2008
It does not matter what he has graduated from, the fact is that he cannot tie two words together, say nth about his humble and obedient servant - generals, as to KGB, wake up my dear - KGB IS WATCHING - has been left in past!
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Vitiumm - 08-17-2008
I saw him speaking german without interpreter,and it was good enough..however,Mr Saakasvilly knows foreign languages too-we all saw him addressing his nation...in English!!)))hope one day The Queen of England would address her country in arabian,that would be fun)
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Steven - 08-18-2008
Tamar Wrote:It does not matter what he has graduated from, the fact is that he cannot tie two words together, say nth about his humble and obedient servant - generals, as to KGB, wake up my dear - KGB IS WATCHING - has been left in past!Tamar your words are invented by you! How can you say Putin can not tie two words? I know it very well since I'm watch news everyday and what I noticed is that he always speaks confidently and he always knows what he wants!
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Lenus - 08-18-2008
Steven Wrote:Tamar Wrote:It does not matter what he has graduated from, the fact is that he cannot tie two words together, say nth about his humble and obedient servant - generals, as to KGB, wake up my dear - KGB IS WATCHING - has been left in past!Tamar your words are invented by you! How can you say Putin can not tie two words? I know it very well since I'm watch news everyday and what I noticed is that he always speaks confidently and he always knows what he wants!
I agree that generally Putin is an educated person, but his logical falacies, especially if he goes furious on press-cofnerence is a bit strange to me.
I am referring to his respond to an Estonian Journalist regarding the Russian Apology demand.
Medevedev is a different story - They guy is clearly a puppet. One can obviously see the way he talks, walks, clinches hands, behaves with guests etc are IDENTICAL to Putin's manners.
The words coming out of his mouth are often repeating of what Putin had already said, publicly! e.g. "Russia will be guarantoor of peace on Caucasus, always have, always will!"
As to Saakashvili - addressing the nation in English is not a Calamity is it? I agree there are some inconsistencies but I can bring you an example when he speaks Russian on the common Press-conference, and this should not happen either!
I was struck by Ukraine - People there talk to each other, publicly, one uses Russian language, and the other - Ukraininan. Without Transaltion.
At the same time, If you see Nazarbayev, Kazakh President, he 90% of the time uses Russian to address his nation. And Kazakh Parliament's working language is Russian. I know its not perfect, but Pulling someone's leg over such minor issues - is not too nice, anyway.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Tamara_Georgia Girl - 08-18-2008
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://korrespondent.net/video/world/555086">http://korrespondent.net/video/world/555086</a><!-- m -->
watch this man is an expert in this area:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=MuBrwbUSdH0">http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=MuBrwbUSdH0</a><!-- m -->
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Nana Chapidze - 08-18-2008
To Independent --
Well, I have looked through your comments here. They seem to be near an independent and unbiased opinion. Where are you from? I have also noticed that you are judging from the objective point of view although you have not looked down deeply in the existing situation making comments only from the things seen supperficially. One should judge the situation in relation of causes and results. I guess you really wanna` know the truth (hope I`m right). Anyway, the truth is out there but a bit shadowed.
Today we hear the latest news about the military actions of Russia in the terrtories of Georgia. The facts show: the conflict regions of Abkhazia and Samachablo (called "South Osetia") are 12-year frozen conflict areas of Georgia. The regions are old Georgian teritorries which were a few centuries ago settled by ethnic Aphsua and ethnic osetians groups. From the very beginning of Soviet histroy Russia has been trying to separate the regions from Georgia (I guess you know about Georgian startegic geo-political situation) and found the way to use these different ethnic groups to achieve its goal.
Today we see the results only. Russia wanted to finally occupate the regions with usage its so called "peace-keepers" but when Saakashvili and the whole Georgian Nation started to get ahead to NATO and other international democratic unions, Russia has recognised that his labour and attemptions of centuries could be pour into water and could lose the long-wished territories.
Well, Russia has decided to teach Georgia a bitter lesson and show the Georgian people what inreality Russia can do if got furious and He made signals to Georgia: "stop and get back form NATO, only I, your powerful neighbour, am your beginning and finish!".
Today the facts seem so: Russia organized real over-aggressive military actions in Georgia and broaded it far from the conflict regions. Now we have destoryed cities, thousands of victims killed, robbed, offended and tortured by the russian soldiers who in many cases act with ethnic oestian (also chechenian, kasakian)bands. In the settlements around Tskhinvali they have a real concentration camps where the victims are tortured and offended. The offenders are russian soldiers with the hired separatist bands.
Russia has dreamed of this war to finally destroy Georgian nation and He acts here as a conflict side backing the separatists.
And be sure, this not the information gained through Georgian TV-s, or read in the biased newspapers. I am telling you real stories.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - nord - 08-18-2008
it is the truth
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=q1LrRS-IKBo">http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=q1LrRS-IKBo</a><!-- m -->
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Lor - 08-18-2008
Nana Chapidze Wrote:To Independent --
Well, I have looked through your comments here. They seem to be near an independent and unbiased opinion. Where are you from? I have also noticed that you are judging from the objective point of view although you have not looked down deeply in the existing situation making comments only from the things seen supperficially. One should judge the situation in relation of causes and results. I guess you really wanna` know the truth (hope I`m right). Anyway, the truth is out there but a bit shadowed.
Today we hear the latest news about the military actions of Russia in the terrtories of Georgia. The facts show: the conflict regions of Abkhazia and Samachablo (called "South Osetia") are 12-year frozen conflict areas of Georgia. The regions are old Georgian teritorries which were a few centuries ago settled by ethnic Aphsua and ethnic osetians groups. From the very beginning of Soviet histroy Russia has been trying to separate the regions from Georgia (I guess you know about Georgian startegic geo-political situation) and found the way to use these different ethnic groups to achieve its goal.
Today we see the results only. Russia wanted to finally occupate the regions with usage its so called "peace-keepers" but when Saakashvili and the whole Georgian Nation started to get ahead to NATO and other international democratic unions, Russia has recognised that his labour and attemptions of centuries could be pour into water and could lose the long-wished territories.
Well, Russia has decided to teach Georgia a bitter lesson and show the Georgian people what inreality Russia can do if got furious and He made signals to Georgia: "stop and get back form NATO, only I, your powerful neighbour, am your beginning and finish!".
Today the facts seem so: Russia organized real over-aggressive military actions in Georgia and broaded it far from the conflict regions. Now we have destoryed cities, thousands of victims killed, robbed, offended and tortured by the russian soldiers who in many cases act with ethnic oestian (also chechenian, kasakian)bands. In the settlements around Tskhinvali they have a real concentration camps where the victims are tortured and offended. The offenders are russian soldiers with the hired separatist bands.
Russia has dreamed of this war to finally destroy Georgian nation and He acts here as a conflict side backing the separatists.
And be sure, this not the information gained through Georgian TV-s, or read in the biased newspapers. I am telling you real stories.
I MUST say that you seem pretty objective!!! Where are you from? Actually doesn't matter that much, for as long as you try not to get too personal.
The problem with this discussion is that it started to get very personal, split between Russians and the rest but I finally met Russians that are not afraid to listen to different sides and to improve their view of the reality. They gave me this link: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.echo.msk.ru/programs/code/534235-echo/">http://www.echo.msk.ru/programs/code/534235-echo/</a><!-- m -->
This is a radio program from Moscow, that is famous from awakening the population, and who is never afraid to speak directly, straight to the point. Unfortunately the radio program is in Russian, so not EVERYBODY can listen to it.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Mariam - 08-18-2008
THIS IS A LINK OF UKRAINIAN SITE> HORRIBLE PICTURES OF THE DEAD SOLDERS. I apologize for increasing the temparature of tension here, bu t think that you have to see it.
SORRY
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://a-ingwar.blogspot.com/2008/08/blog-post_1617.html">http://a-ingwar.blogspot.com/2008/08/bl ... _1617.html</a><!-- m -->
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - IamGEORGIA - 08-18-2008
The U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees said Sunday that it estimated the fighting has displaced more than 158,000 people, citing statistics from the Russian and Georgian governments.
Almost 99,000 of those displaced were in Georgia, while 30,000 were displaced in South Ossetia and 30,000 have fled to Russia, the UNHCR said
CNN
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Vitiumm - 08-18-2008
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=KSVEckdNOFk">http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=KSVEckdNOFk</a><!-- m -->
thats surprising,but some Americans do accept the truth!watch,think.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - bouilleux - 08-18-2008
As I understood, the source of this information is TV channel Russia Today, which is one of the tools of Russian propaganda machine. So I would not reccomend you to rely on such sources and try to get more balanced and independent information.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Vitiumm - 08-18-2008
well,in case CNN is busy with PR'ing Georgia,the only source of propaganda would be Russia Today)
the interesting thing is,that all these georgians on the forums all over the web,spend whole days blaming and blaming their foes,don't you think this is quite a complicated thing to do,while being bombed all day long?!
the russian troops are seeking,killing,raping etc.(we've heard it million times),and all these bloggers are calmly sitting in the internet-cafes,ha??? :ange
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Eka - 08-18-2008
Vitiumm Wrote:well,in case CNN is busy with PR'ing Georgia,the only source of propaganda would be Russia Today)
the interesting thing is,that all these georgians on the forums all over the web,spend whole days blaming and blaming their foes,don't you think this is quite a complicated thing to do,while being bombed all day long?!
the russian troops are seeking,killing,raping etc.(we've heard it million times),and all these bloggers are calmly sitting in the internet-cafes,ha??? :ange
Dear sir/madam
We have strong statehood and good govermant. All those things that you mentioned are taking place in 30-35 km from Tbilisi, but besides this all Georgia which is not occupied and is occupied by Russians is trying to be calm. YOur dream to destry our statehood will never came ro reality, because all govermantal stactures and offices, all hospitals and sectors are working as good swiss watches. We understand that very soon we will have many things to do for restroing our country and are ready for this. We are sitting in offices and working and at same time doing everything that we can on all fronts.
Russian troops are realy doing things which you so praudly mentioned, but we and huge amount of internetional exsperts are observing this , while you are sitting in internet-cafes and washing your barains with soviet propaganda.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Frederic - 08-18-2008
Dear Vitium, first of all I dont know were you are sitting right now, but I do beleive somewhere in a quiet and peacefull place, where there has never been heard voices of children from Beslan, desperate cries of Nord Ost victimes and voices of Chechen people, who have been actually annihilated by brave russian army. All these and many many other brutall actions were done with the help of russian propaganda machine, which leaves no room for russian citizens to get information from different sources and have the possibility to make their own considerations. As regards, Georgian bloggers I think you would more happy if nobody in Georgia would now have possibility to work with computer, or to read newspaper or to simply be with his family. But anyway Georgians managed to survive. Don't worry about it too much.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Mariam - 08-18-2008
Vitiumm Wrote:well,in case CNN is busy with PR'ing Georgia,the only source of propaganda would be Russia Today)
the interesting thing is,that all these georgians on the forums all over the web,spend whole days blaming and blaming their foes,don't you think this is quite a complicated thing to do,while being bombed all day long?!
the russian troops are seeking,killing,raping etc.(we've heard it million times),and all these bloggers are calmly sitting in the internet-cafes,ha??? :ange
YEA VITIA,
CNN, BBC, NYT, EU Committy, All baltic countries, Poland, Ukraina, Canada, France, Germany, Holland, and NATO, many others are busy with our PR. And Russian alone (but u are big and have too many propagandists) are busy with our own PR. ALl your channels are saing the truth and the rest of the world is lying, VERY FUNNY
DOn't u think so? :haha
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Lenus - 08-18-2008
Vitiumm Wrote:well,in case CNN is busy with PR'ing Georgia,the only source of propaganda would be Russia Today)
the interesting thing is,that all these georgians on the forums all over the web,spend whole days blaming and blaming their foes,don't you think this is quite a complicated thing to do,while being bombed all day long?!
the russian troops are seeking,killing,raping etc.(we've heard it million times),and all these bloggers are calmly sitting in the internet-cafes,ha??? :ange
thats really cinical of you!
You disrespect Georgians for no obvious reason.
Wat is the matter?
We never said Internet doesnt work in Tbilisi.
Yes we sit wit computers and trying to sprea our view on the conflict WORLD had ignored for so long and forgotten about its existence.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Vitiumm - 08-18-2008
first of all,I should say that I live in Barcelona,but I have been studying in Russia soon after the Beslan tragedy,and what I saw(I tell this seriously,not trying to deceive anyone) I personally saw in the flats of russians small cards with the words "Beslan.I remember." placed next to icons!!It was a great tragedy,and YOU HAVE NO RIGHT!!! to talk this way,your country has done nothing for the victims of the tragedy!!and you do nothing at the moment to help your beloved brothers in Osetia!why are your children healed in Belorussian hospitals(yeah,another american enemy), why do russians collect money for repairing Tshinvally , but not you georgians?!
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Mariam - 08-18-2008
Vitiumm Wrote:first of all,I should say that I live in Barcelona,but I have been studying in Russia soon after the Beslan tragedy,and what I saw(I tell this seriously,not trying to deceive anyone) I personally saw in the flats of russians small cards with the words "Beslan.I remember." placed next to icons!!It was a great tragedy,and YOU HAVE NO RIGHT!!! to talk this way,your country has done nothing for the victims of the tragedy!!and you do nothing at the moment to help your beloved brothers in Osetia!why are your children healed in Belorussian hospitals(yeah,another american enemy), why do russians collect money for repairing Tshinvally , but not you georgians?!
WOW,
So far I knew that the whole world tend (who had the capability) to get the education in west Europe, in USA. I did not know that someone from Europe, espacially from Spain, moved to Russia to learn something. Maybe, the one can learn here "something". OK
What si stated here about Beslan tragedy is that Government can solve this problem not to having such a horrible outcome. thousneds of Children died and hundreds dissapeared. We didn't offended anyone exept the severe politics of Russian government. As for you your information (how come u know that much info) collecting money for tskhinvali, we don;t ask them to rebuild there anything, we will do it with the help of our friend inthe whole world and use our resources. But if THey are helpin us after bombing Georgian territories many thnaks from my side :haha :haha
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Nana Chapidze - 08-18-2008
nord Wrote:it is the truth
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=q1LrRS-IKBo">http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=q1LrRS-IKBo</a><!-- m -->
I have watched your recommended video because I really got interested what was "the truth about Georgia in eyes of a 12-year girl". Unfortunatelly, I have realized this this is absolutely not convincing and seems clearly to be a play.. The 12-yaer girl makes a political statement: "I saw Georgian troops bombing the city and thanks to Russian troops". Could you just imagine what it means when you are sitting in a cafe and it starts bombarding in the city? How could this girl recognize who, Georgians, russians or ossetians, bombed the city? This is absolutely unbeliavable that this girl has recognized who were bombing the city. I will say nothing much about the statement of her aunt KoKoeva (maybe she is a relative of the separatist leader - KoKoity?!) who made a poor biased political statement and blamed Georgian government. It is easy to notive in this video that the girl and her aunt want to make political statements not express disasters of war.
Sorry, but this video tells nothing about the on-going situation in Georgia but proves that it may be not very smart immitated story through which Russians want to show "the truth".
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Eka - 08-18-2008
Vitiumm Wrote:first of all,I should say that I live in Barcelona,but I have been studying in Russia soon after the Beslan tragedy,and what I saw(I tell this seriously,not trying to deceive anyone) I personally saw in the flats of russians small cards with the words "Beslan.I remember." placed next to icons!!It was a great tragedy,and YOU HAVE NO RIGHT!!! to talk this way,your country has done nothing for the victims of the tragedy!!and you do nothing at the moment to help your beloved brothers in Osetia!why are your children healed in Belorussian hospitals(yeah,another american enemy), why do russians collect money for repairing Tshinvally , but not you georgians?!VIt from Barcelona??
you dont know that many Georgain families have realtives in north osethia and we very not only uppset, but really shocked what kind of awfull military operation was done by Russian FSB. Somewere here is informatin about 350 lost children in BEslan ? you have not questions ? I have and I am 100% sure it was done by russians to provokesituation in caucasus, you were learning in Russia. Oh my god not really big expiriance of haveing good knolage of this wild country. We leave with them 200 years and I leave there 4 years so it is enaugh to know what they are in reality. Even every russian is sure that USSR can be some times restored and they are so bnlind with propaganda that dont even understood that hole world is shocked but not frightened by there drunken solgers in my country.
Dont worry we will restore not only GOri but Tskinvaly too . Came and see after some 2-3 yaers.
PS. GEorgian brodcasting Rustavi 2 was first ion Beslan under Russians fire telling try to world with another free adn democratis tv-s.
As I remeber we receive children for rehabiliteation and treatment too. and we heared from them very different story about Beslan.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Frederic - 08-18-2008
Vitium, Give Georgians possibility to help Ossetians and be sure thy will do it. How can Georgia help Ossetians and re built Tskhinvali, if it is blocked by brave Russina army, which makes it impossible not only for georgian authorities, but for international experts to assess the extent of catastrophe. Georgian mothers can not even mourn over their dead sons, as humanitarin corridor is not provided. I think it is done as russians are now trying to falsificate the facts in region, prior the international monitors are given acesss to the territories, which are now occupied. I don't want to speculate on Beslan tragedy, bur anyway it is impossible to justify russia's role in this event. Remember Kursk as well.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Vitiumm - 08-18-2008
On youtube I saw students from Poland visiting your country,that looked much more ridiculous)
Definitely,I've never seen such a solid-hearted nationality....but,what were I thinking about?!-you cant even rebuild the small village of Gori without americans...