+- Forums (https://eu-forums.com)
+-- Forum: EU Forums (https://eu-forums.com/forum-19.html)
+--- Forum: Hot Topics (https://eu-forums.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Thread: Georgia and South Ossetia at war (/thread-1703.html)
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Caucasus - 08-14-2008
sophie Wrote:This is amazing u know, how people are saying that Georgia has intervened in South Ossetia and that some blame Georgia for the actions it has never and would never do.YOU, I again stress, YOU MUST REMEMBER (YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO FORGET) THAT THERE WERE 14 (FOURTEEN) YEARS OF PEACE IN THIS CONFLICT BEFOFE GEORGIA ( I stress once more) G-E-O-R-G-I-A has launched a surprise attak on South Ossetia. Georgia has broken all peace agreements that were SIGNED by Georgia. Georgia lies every time. Just remember your president was speaking of his "peace proposals" in several hours before bombing of Tskhinval started. All this false proposals were a part of desinformation for western mass media. At that very moment Georgian troops were coming to their fire positions near Tskhinval. So you President is an ordinary LIER. According to the international agreements Georgian Army had no rigts to keep bombing and shelling Tskhinaval for 16 hours. It was illegal. Georgian army had no right even approach Ossetian border according to the SIGNED INTERNATIONAL agreements. They had no right to kill civil peole and peacekeepers. For those who doesn't know "Grad" cannot fire precisely - the highest sharpness of firing is +/- 90-100 meters. It is usually used when it is need to totally destroy a wide area. It is not a cannon or a gun. It can fire several missiles in one second. How many seconds are in 16 hours of constant bombing, do you can count? Saakashvili is a trator of Georgian people. Greater part of your soldiers were thinking they were going on training shooting, not on the war. And some of the units that were made of FOREIGN soldiers (Ukranian, Arab, American) were under DRUG intoxication. Don't forget that Russia acted fully just as it was written in the agreements. Russia was even OBLIGED to act as it did by those agreements. If you stiil believe that your troops were right in killing people - you are either MAD, or ordinary FASCIST. Not only you are in shock, we are in shock how cowardly your President has broken the legal agreements. We do not belive any word of him now. He is not a MAN at all. He cannot keep his word. He speaks about democracy, pretending that Georgia is a "beacon of Democracy", but he kills his political opponents, he censores your phone calls, he regulates your access to Internet, you cannot visit Russian web-sites or watch Russian TV channels... Here in Russia (which is not free to your opinion) we can watch any channel on our taste. CNN, BBC, Euronews any ... We have unlimited access to Internet... We can read any newspaper be it Russian, American or German.. Can you see the difference?
I am Georgian living in Tbilisi, u cant even imagine how it feels like to be in a constant fear that now a bomb will fly in and u never know where it is directed. I wish no one will ever feel the same.
The actions Russians undertook in 21st century is totally unacceptable. After a cease-fire agreement was reached Russia still deepened into Georgian city Gori where a mass murders of civillian population were taking place, they were raping women and if there is resistance from the others they were killing them selfishly. The west Georgia is devastated. People are in shock.
this week was the worst days in my life :-(
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - solo - 08-14-2008
Caucasus Wrote:They were military boats. If we are speaking about several missile fast-boats that attacked Russian ships.
Please pay attention that they made attacks not the only one time, but several times. So the Russian Navy was absolutely right...
so you think it is right to sink georgian ships in georgian territory? how fair you are!
by the way kazaks and russian soldiers were robbing gori and nearby villages. whole world is now speaking about that.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - sophie - 08-14-2008
Let me remind you that south ossetia is a part of Georgia and if there were Russian peacekeepres then they should have acted as a peacekeeprs and not to the contrary.
Caucasus Wrote:Here in Russia (which is not free to your opinion) we can watch any channel on our taste. CNN, BBC, Euronews any
For you information we can also watch any channel we wish to watch
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Gift - 08-14-2008
sophie Wrote:Let me remind you that south ossetia is a part of Georgia and if there were Russian peacekeepres then they should have acted as a peacekeeprs and not to the contrary.What about the fact that Georgian PEACEkeepers shot Russian peacekeepers, their colleagues? They tried to escape, and receive an artillery shot in their backs.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - solo - 08-14-2008
Caucasus Wrote:A day before Saakashvili's invasion one of georgian generals said, that he surely knows that there is no evacuation from Ossetia and "people just send children to have summer rest, as they allways do". TV magic...
can you tell us the name of that general?[/quote]
sorry, that was not general. it was Georgia state reintegration minister Jakobashvili (hope i spelled it right) in interview for georgian "Rustawi 2" dated by the 4th of August.[/quote]
It were Georgians who left Tskhinval before the Georgia's agression against South Ossetia. And you can find video of Georgian fist bombing Ossetia at http://www.georgia-lies.narod.ru or just type "Ossetia" on YouTube.[/quote]
listen, how can you tell who is bombing. can you say who started shooting first? i mean, what facts do you have? video? what do you see there. the fact is both sides were shooting. yesterday you told me, that georgian snipers were killing civilians in tskhinvali. have you seen any sniper (georgian or russian) shooting civilians? what is the aim of shooting civilians? I do not think this is right even from the military point of view. but i do not know what are russian snipers doing, but i can say this is not what georgians do.
and i can assure you, that russian soldiers are still robbing georgian (and not only georgian) civilians, cities and robbing and demolishing military buildings outside samachablo.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Moskal - 08-14-2008
solo Wrote:by Moskal on Today, 14:59
This forum is full of paranoid russophobs who are not good enough in English... However, they consistently ignore the truth which is the fact that it was Georgian troops that killed 2000 civilians in the town of Tskhinval within 1 or 2 days, using heavy arms. They deliberately killed even women, children and the elderly. They sadistically shot the wounded and helpless peacekeepers. And all this was inspired, organized and led by the Georgian politicians, Saakashvili in the first place, under strong guiding arm of Uncle Sam from overseas.
Only later, almost a day after the Russian army invaded and - yes! - bit the shit of of the Georgian scum, for they are scum as were German nazis.
Now, the time has come. The time to pay. And you will all see very soon how Saakashvili and his ministers and MPs will stand before the international tribunal, unless they manage to kill themselves before...
This is what they have deserved and will receive!Moskal
Posts: 1
Joined: Today, 08:57
please, recall how many civilians did russian army kill in chechnia? 10000, 20000 or. . . 80000 only in grozny! and they all were citizens of russian federation! And do you know how many civilians died after russians attack in Tskhinvali and in other georgian cities, which russians bomb? any more questions? So, when talking about human rights and international tribunal, PLEASE, remember what your president, sorry, prime minister has done !
Please recall haw many civilians the Persian army killed when they invaded Ancient Greece or Alexander of Macedonia when he invaded India? You dummie will always refer to Chechnya? Nothing else to quote?
OK. Let's talk about Chechnya. During de facto independence in 1991-1993, i.e. BEFORE THE 1ST CHECHEN CAMPAIGN (that is before any invasion of the Russian army - clarification specifically for dummies like you) according to diffierent estimates made by various human rights organizations the Chechens physically killed from 200,000 to 400,000 non-chechens, who lived in the chechen republic, mostly Russians, but not only. They established a gangster state within Russia to rob the neiboring areas and enslave other peoples, so they were also "forced to peace". You'd better learn what happened there: still a lot of evidence of massacres and violence over civilians made by chechens at that time.
As to Tskhinval, the multiple evidence of Georgian crimes are being collected now, so, hopefully saakashvily, yakobashvili and the rest of the clique will stand before the tribunal. But most likely they will suddenly die, say, of a heart attack or whatever, for their masters don't want them to open mouths...
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - John K - 08-14-2008
Nana Wrote:John K Wrote:I'm not from Russia, i'm from Kazakhstan. And in Kazakhstan people had a great and very warm attitude towards Georgia, kazakhstanian business people invested a lot of money in Georgia.
But now it' gone. Georgians wrong
Of course, you don't want to make angry your Big neighbour, you do everything to get them happy.
What are you talking about??
hock: Am I a politician or what? I don't care about the politics or about the relationships with Russia. I don't like the war, it's terrible, and no any normal person whant the war. Then the person or a country who unleashed the war is guilty and unnormal. War is terrific, it's enough to watch "Saving private Rayan" to understand that.
Then - why do you, georgians, want the war? And don't tell me you don't. Georgian troops started to bomb Tskhinvalli and broked into the city killin peacekeepers and civilians. Russian troops broked into Georgia only when Tskhinvalli was almost under georgians control, after a day of the war.
Only Saakashvilli is an instigator of war. Kazakhstan has a friendship with BEAR, which lasts many centures.
And what abour Georgia and USA? Georgia became the slave of USA, its new state, it's absolutely clear. USA is interested in Georgia only becouse it ner the Russia. It's easy to understand. There's nothing interesting else in Georgia for USA. Everyone understand that Saakashvilly will not risk to attack the South Osetia without the permission of USA.
Just give me the one answer: WHO HAS STARTED THE WAR?
Who started to bomb Tskinvally and attacked it with infantry?
Before this it was peace, let it cal BAD peace. But BAD peace is much better than a WAR.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Moskal - 08-14-2008
sophie Wrote:Let me remind you that south ossetia is a part of Georgia and if there were Russian peacekeepres then they should have acted as a peacekeeprs and not to the contrary.
Let me remind you that Kosovo was part of Serbia too, and even much more so - for centuries, unlike Ossetia and Abkhazia, which were annexed to georgia by Stalin...
The precedent was created and not by Russians. Sorry! They will NO LONGER be Georgia. Forget it! Buy-buy!!
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Tutor - 08-14-2008
Well, I'm afraid we're never going to learn the truth about all this. Russian TV channels try to show Georgia as a monster attacking the innocent. Meanwhile in Georgia it's the same but against Russia. Some of my friends from SO wrote that it was Georgia who attacked them. At the same time, my very close friend (she is a Russian) wrote me that the same night she heard bombings not far from Gori (she is still in Georgia). So, it's difficul tu judge.
I believe the problem is not about who started the war but about 'how to help people'. I hope both Russia and Georgia are sensible enough to realize that the road the situation was advancing is the dead end.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Moskal - 08-14-2008
solo Wrote:so you think it is right to sink georgian ships in georgian territory? how fair you are!
by the way kazaks and russian soldiers were robbing gori and nearby villages. whole world is now speaking about that.
Yes, this is right: the agressor must be punished. As to the bla-bla-bla about kozacks and soldiers robbing poor Georgians, I would welcome it, but unfortunately, this is not true. As Russian army is in fact much more disciplined than the Georgian one, who just ran away from Russian troops.
By the way, the 58th army had only 30,000 rifles against 35,000 of Georgian regular army + additinal 35,000 reservists summoned by Saakashvili not long before August (forwhat, by the way? - to help Ossetians build their bright future obviously). So more than double compared to the Russian army and we saw the result. Everyone in the West now, except for americans, of course, say Russia has been right in stopping the agressor.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - solo - 08-14-2008
John K Wrote:sophie, you afraid of the bombs saying how it's terrible to hear the sounds of the falling bomb.
Then why you didn't stop Saakashvilli when he broked into South Ossetia??
Don't you think that people of South Ossetia are afraid of the bombs too? And the also want to live! Same as you!
Why we shoud regret about georgians if georgians started that war??
Those who started the war are guilty in deaths! Saakashvili is a ne Hitler! And those who support him and his actions are also guilty in deaths of ossetians and georgians!
I'm not from Russia, i'm from Kazakhstan. And in Kazakhstan people had a great and very warm attitude towards Georgia, kazakhstanian business people invested a lot of money in Georgia.
But now it' gone. Georgians wrong
dear john k
I am very sorry to hear that from a citizen of kazakhstan.
I am sorry that you can see nothing, or you do not want to see anything, or you have watched only russian channels (that's may be the worst version).
This conflict in samachablo (or s. ossetia) as well as conflict in abkhazia was inspired by russians, and believe me the aim of russian federation surely is not connected with the wish to make ossetians free and happy. It is funny that russians don't even bother to cover their real aims.
asnwer me, please, how independent your country is and how much does it depend on russia?
what do you think about putin or medvedev? How do you think, all that they have done in chechnia, beslan is normal? are kazakhstan business people much concerned about that? Should i be thinking that they have stopped business relationship with russia after chechnia, or may be they did that after beslan?
what do you think about more then 260000 refugees from abkhazia, that are not allowed to return to their home place? why is this conflict so frozen? who needs that? who is bying georgians houses and lands in abkhazia?
So, my dear friend from kazakhstan, your people can invest or they can not, it's up to them, but mind of what you are talking before you accuse someone in things like nacizm.
by the way, speaking of hitler and nacizm, there are no skinheads killing and beating non - georgian population in georgia, but hopefully you have heard of some that violate peoples life in russia.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - k4despair - 08-14-2008
solo Wrote:yesterday you told me, that georgian snipers were killing civilians in tskhinvali. have you seen any sniper (georgian or russian) shooting civilians? what is the aim of shooting civilians? I do not think this is right even from the military point of view.
Aim of shooting civilians is to force the opponent's reaction. Saakashvili wants Russia to invade his country. It is meaningless from the military point of view. That's true. But he is not a military man, he is dirty politician. Real russian invasion would cause lots of destructions and heavy losses from both sides, but anyway it will mean georgian victory (remember Congress of Berlin, 1878).
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Gift - 08-14-2008
There's no need arguing more I think.
I'm not sure at all that Russian or western channels speak only truth. More over, I'm sure that all channels are silent about certain things and lying (for their ignorance or specially).
I agree with Annet, we've witnessed a great tragedy, lots of deaths and war that lead to nowhere. I tend to blame Georgian president and his surroundings, not Georgian people. An aventure that ended badly. I tend to hope he'll be announced as a war criminal and judged by tribunal.
The main thing now is to punish all the guilty - that is why information from Ossetia and Georgia is gathered now. If Russian or Ossetian soldiers were marauding - they should be punished too.
There was so much lies in this war that I don't believe anyone. I think we must wait for the independent experts' decision.
And please, should we stop (as we say in Russia) "measuring whose dick is bigger" and seek for the skeletons from each other's history? There's no country that has their hands clean in the end of all.
Btw, many countries apologized for earlier anti-Russian statements today.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - John K - 08-14-2008
IamGEORGIA Wrote:Yes we attacked Tskinvali, our city, to clen it from separatiist terorists.. From Kokoity and his criminal gangs.And we did it...russian peacekkeper backed these terorists and we destoyed them too..In ossetia arrived one of the oprestigious military unit, they are all destroyed, because of invading georgia illegally..
nobody can come and shoot to our civilians..Will it be russian a\or whoever..
That's it! Everything clear. It's good that you can consider yourself as the aggressor-country.
No matter WHY, main thing is that you've started that war, you're the criminals, as Kokoity. Why are you better than he? He killed georgians, you killed south ossetians. Both sides, Georgia and South Osetia are criminals.
And there need to be a third party who need to be interfered to stop the war. It was Russia, because there was its peacekeepers. And because in South Osetia hunderds of thousands of Russian civilians, not georgian, as you mentioned before.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - solo - 08-14-2008
Gift Wrote:sophie Wrote:This is amazing u know, how people are saying that Georgia has intervened in South Ossetia and that some blame Georgia for the actions it has never and would never do.
I am Georgian living in Tbilisi, u cant even imagine how it feels like to be in a constant fear that now a bomb will fly in and u never know where it is directed. I wish no one will ever feel the same.
The actions Russians undertook in 21st century is totally unacceptable. After a cease-fire agreement was reached Russia still deepened into Georgian city Gori where a mass murders of civillian population were taking place, they were raping women and if there is resistance from the others they were killing them selfishly. The west Georgia is devastated. People are in shock.
this week was the worst days in my life :-(
oh yeah? Go to Tskhinvali and see what happens thereTalk to Ossetian refugees too. There's no one to blame but your insane president.
You want to say that Georgia never bombed Ossetia, neither killed civilians and peacekeepers?
There are new evidences - interviews with common Ossetian men and women from Tskhinvali. They say: Georgian soldiers kicked Ossetian women to the ground and shot their heads off. They ran along Tskhinvali streets and shouted in ossetian language: "All is over, we won!" and when civilians crawled out of cellars - they shot everybody, children and women. That was BEFORE Russian "invasion".
Yesterday all Russia was moaning for humanitarian catastrophe in South Ossetia.
That's a great disaster if Russian soldiers really behave as they shouldn't, but don't forget where and who started all this.
why did russia invade chechnia and killed women, children and civilians? you now, what the problem is? nobody in russia said that it was wrong to kill civilians, citizens of russian federation. what did chechens want? FREEDOME! why did not russia agree with that?
Do not tell me that chechnia was part of russia and therefore russians had to do so. anyway they should not kill innocent civilians. that was crime commited by putin and russian army.
you should know(if you do not , just have a glance at history books) that russian empire has occupied chechnia in only 19 th century.
unlike chechnia, ossetians were settled on the GEORGIAN LAND in 17 th century.
are you following? hopefully you can see the differences!
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - John K - 08-14-2008
sophie Wrote:Let me remind you that south ossetia is a part of Georgia and if there were Russian peacekeepres then they should have acted as a peacekeeprs and not to the contrary.
For you information we can also watch any channel we wish to watch
I want ask too: why georgian peacekeepers shut their russian colleagues? And how could georgian troops bomb the peacekeepers? Is it legal? Peacekeepers were performing their functions due to mandate of UN. Isn't it?
And why georgians attacked South Ossetia - even there was an agreement on cease fire? Georgia has broked the international agreement, right? Then Georgia is an international criminal, am I wrong?
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - zubr - 08-14-2008
What is amazing to me is how media is so supportive of their governments. If in the US government blames Russia, they follow that line. If in Italy and France the government does not want escalation of the conflict and does not want to get involved in the World War III because of a bold gamble by "Misha", the media is questioning Georgia's story, and tries to get the facts straight before coming to the conclusion.
In any case, Russia comes out of this situation a loser. No matter what it would do. If it did not respond, everyone would consider it a "Loser". With the way it responded they call it "an imperialistic tyrant". I am sure Bush and Misha calculated that in advance, and needed that in order to help republicans in the US elections. Just by simple logic, there is no reason why Russia should have started this conflict. And there are all resons in the world why it was necessary for other parties to start it.
Regarding a comment earlier on how valid it is for a country to attack another country if the citizens are killed there. I really respect Israel for that. Remember when 2 soldiers got kidnapped by terrorists? They invaded half of Lebanon under the excuse that leaders of that country could not fight terrorism effectively themselves. They did not need UN resolution or approval of the international community. They just went, because those lives were important to them. Nothing else matters. That is why every soldier and every citizen is loyal to that country, and they are willing to stand behind them with a rifle.
Russia in this case proved the same. If they did not act, Russians would question the authority of the government and the country would fall apart from within.
In any case, the history will be written by the winners. Look at Iraq. Even though Bush went there to find WMDs, and instead he re-made his image as "Liberator of Iraqi people from the tyrany of Saddam". Nobody even remembers now that it started with a lie. I think they are trying to do the same. Does not matter that Georgia attacked and killed Russian citizens. "Nasty Russians destroyed all military equipment that just happeded to be there near the boarder or in Tshinvali. Such bad Russians!"
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - k4despair - 08-14-2008
sophie Wrote:I am Georgian living in Tbilisi, u cant even imagine how it feels like to be in a constant fear that now a bomb will fly in and u never know where it is directed. I wish no one will ever feel the same.
It is terrible, that u and other georgians had to go through it. But can u please tell us, do u still live in ur appartments as earlier? How many times u used to run down into house basement to save ur life from bomb? Maybe u or ur neightbors have spent couple of days in the basements?
I didn't survive any bombings (thanks God), but what i see in e.g. british WWII chronicles are people sitting in bomb-proofs. Same thing in german or soviet chronicles. Inhabitants of Tskhinvali have spent days in the basements even without food and water.
This is how live people in fear of bombings. And if people sit in their flats and watch latest news, then they are not afraid of bombs, they are afraid of their TV set. Switch it off.
Sorry, if i am wrong and u realy had to use bomb-proofs.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - solo - 08-14-2008
Moskal Wrote:solo Wrote:by Moskal on Today, 14:59
This forum is full of paranoid russophobs who are not good enough in English... However, they consistently ignore the truth which is the fact that it was Georgian troops that killed 2000 civilians in the town of Tskhinval within 1 or 2 days, using heavy arms. They deliberately killed even women, children and the elderly. They sadistically shot the wounded and helpless peacekeepers. And all this was inspired, organized and led by the Georgian politicians, Saakashvili in the first place, under strong guiding arm of Uncle Sam from overseas.
Only later, almost a day after the Russian army invaded and - yes! - bit the shit of of the Georgian scum, for they are scum as were German nazis.
Now, the time has come. The time to pay. And you will all see very soon how Saakashvili and his ministers and MPs will stand before the international tribunal, unless they manage to kill themselves before...
This is what they have deserved and will receive!Moskal
Posts: 1
Joined: Today, 08:57
please, recall how many civilians did russian army kill in chechnia? 10000, 20000 or. . . 80000 only in grozny! and they all were citizens of russian federation! And do you know how many civilians died after russians attack in Tskhinvali and in other georgian cities, which russians bomb? any more questions? So, when talking about human rights and international tribunal, PLEASE, remember what your president, sorry, prime minister has done !
Please recall haw many civilians the Persian army killed when they invaded Ancient Greece or Alexander of Macedonia when he invaded India? You dummie will always refer to Chechnya? Nothing else to quote?
are you persian, greek or macedonian? what's up, you schrink when someone recalls you about chechnia, beslan and other "briliant" russian campaigns?
OK. Let's talk about Chechnya. During de facto independence in 1991-1993, i.e. BEFORE THE 1ST CHECHEN CAMPAIGN (that is before any invasion of the Russian army - clarification specifically for dummies like you) according to diffierent estimates made by various human rights organizations the Chechens physically killed from 200,000 to 400,000 non-chechens, who lived in the chechen republic, mostly Russians, but not only. They established a gangster state within Russia to rob the neiboring areas and enslave other peoples, so they were also "forced to peace". You'd better learn what happened there: still a lot of evidence of massacres and violence over civilians made by chechens at that time.
is it so necessary to kill civilians, to rob them, is this the way russia understand "forced to peace" operation? sure, russians acted and are acting according to human right organizations .
As to Tskhinval, the multiple evidence of Georgian crimes are being collected now, so, hopefully saakashvily, yakobashvili and the rest of the clique will stand before the tribunal. But most likely they will suddenly die, say, of a heart attack or whatever, for their masters don't want them to open mouths...
oh, no, that's the way russian federation acts: rob civilians, churches, setting mines in cities far away from samachablo. this is called "forced to peace" for idiots who will believe in it.
anyway, russia has nothing to do in other regions of georgia.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Moskal - 08-14-2008
aranar63 Wrote:Gush, can't you think in another categories? No one wants to overtake you anymore. You are your own enemy. It's just that your opinion - in spite of your cowboy purse - don't matter much any more. Can't you see? Others have geopolitical interests and you have to take it into account, that's all.
Geopolitical interest thats the word, today Georgia, tomorrow Ukraine, next Kazakhastan and so on, it looks like Hitler revisited
"Geopolitical interests", "Hitler revisited". Statistically, since the SU's breakdown in 1991 how many EXTERNAL wars (Chechnya was an internal conflict by all means) altogether were waged by the US, and by Russia? So, shut up then!
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Caucasus - 08-14-2008
^^^^ Wrote:listen, how can you tell who is bombing. can you say who started shooting first? i mean, what facts do you have? video? what do you see there. the fact is both sides were shooting.
I can tell who is bombing and shelling by the direction of from missiles come. Or did you mean Ossetins fired
from GRAD to themselves and then blamed peaceful Georgian Army that had come there with flowers in hand and not with tanks, Grads, missiles and shells? On video I see that Georgian troops coming to Ossetia breaking signed by Georgia international peace agreements. I see that Grads are working at the blast fire mode. There were no Ossetian Grads there. Grads are used for total destruction of AREAS, and not a sinle TARGETS. When Georgians used Grads they wanted to destroy Tskhinval and to make Ossetins leave Ossetia.
^^^^ Wrote:and i can assure you, that russian soldiers are still robbing georgian (and not only georgian) civilians, cities and robbing and demolishing military buildings outside South Ossetia
You are not in Gori then. If you had a possibility to watch truly channels (or at least three channels with different opinions) you would know that Russian army has already officially passed the control over Gori to Georgian authorities. http://www.georgia-lies.narod.ru And this was made after the joint inspection (Russian+Georgian) of this little poor town. Electricity and water comes to Gori without problems. The buildings are in good state. If the Georgian authorities cannot cope with Georgian robbers it is not problem of Russian army. There is no Russian Army in Gori. It is not far from it. Ask it to come back. But do it officially.
As for military targets that (by your words) are being demolished by Russian army - do not use them for gathering troops, for keepeng there artillery or tanks (in short Range from Ossetia)... Do not use them for setting up a fire point directed against Ossetia. And all will be OK. And sign up an agreement of non-use of force in resolving conflicts. It was easy not to use YOUR Army against other country. You believed that you are STRONGER that is why you attacked... You were miscalculated. When the similar troops came you just ran away.
^^^^ Wrote:yesterday you told me, that georgian snipers were killing civilians in Tskhinvali. have you seen any sniper (georgian or russian) shooting civilians? what is the aim of shooting civilians? I do not think this is right even from the military point of view. but i do not know what are russian snipers doing, but i can say this is not what georgians do.
I saw the video of killed Georgian sniper. And do you know, he had a cellular phone with him, and his mother called and she was told her son is dead. She did not know he wason the war. She thought he was working. Poor woman. I really sorry. Think about your mothers, what you are doing to them by playing a great NATO warriors.
what is the aim of shooting civilians? The aim - is just the same as when bombing them. To make the Ossetins leave Ossetia. Nobody likes when someone is constantly shooting at you.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Moskal - 08-14-2008
solo Wrote:Moskal Wrote:solo Wrote:by Moskal on Today, 14:59
This forum is full of paranoid russophobs who are not good enough in English... However, they consistently ignore the truth which is the fact that it was Georgian troops that killed 2000 civilians in the town of Tskhinval within 1 or 2 days, using heavy arms. They deliberately killed even women, children and the elderly. They sadistically shot the wounded and helpless peacekeepers. And all this was inspired, organized and led by the Georgian politicians, Saakashvili in the first place, under strong guiding arm of Uncle Sam from overseas.
Only later, almost a day after the Russian army invaded and - yes! - bit the shit of of the Georgian scum, for they are scum as were German nazis.
Now, the time has come. The time to pay. And you will all see very soon how Saakashvili and his ministers and MPs will stand before the international tribunal, unless they manage to kill themselves before...
This is what they have deserved and will receive!Moskal
Posts: 1
Joined: Today, 08:57
please, recall how many civilians did russian army kill in chechnia? 10000, 20000 or. . . 80000 only in grozny! and they all were citizens of russian federation! And do you know how many civilians died after russians attack in Tskhinvali and in other georgian cities, which russians bomb? any more questions? So, when talking about human rights and international tribunal, PLEASE, remember what your president, sorry, prime minister has done !
Please recall haw many civilians the Persian army killed when they invaded Ancient Greece or Alexander of Macedonia when he invaded India? You dummie will always refer to Chechnya? Nothing else to quote?
are you persian, greek or macedonian? what's up, you schrink when someone recalls you about chechnia, beslan and other "briliant" russian campaigns?
OK. Let's talk about Chechnya. During de facto independence in 1991-1993, i.e. BEFORE THE 1ST CHECHEN CAMPAIGN (that is before any invasion of the Russian army - clarification specifically for dummies like you) according to diffierent estimates made by various human rights organizations the Chechens physically killed from 200,000 to 400,000 non-chechens, who lived in the chechen republic, mostly Russians, but not only. They established a gangster state within Russia to rob the neiboring areas and enslave other peoples, so they were also "forced to peace". You'd better learn what happened there: still a lot of evidence of massacres and violence over civilians made by chechens at that time.
is it so necessary to kill civilians, to rob them, is this the way russia understand "forced to peace" operation? sure, russians acted and are acting according to human right organizations .
As to Tskhinval, the multiple evidence of Georgian crimes are being collected now, so, hopefully saakashvily, yakobashvili and the rest of the clique will stand before the tribunal. But most likely they will suddenly die, say, of a heart attack or whatever, for their masters don't want them to open mouths...
oh, no, that's the way russian federation acts: rob civilians, churches, setting mines in cities far away from samachablo. this is called "forced to peace" for idiots who will believe in it.
anyway, russia has nothing to do in other regions of georgia.
You are even more stupid that I could imagine. You don't feel any sarcasm at all, for instance. You don't follw logic. Not saying about ignoring your opponent's facts produced here. You are just waste of space and shut up unless you have something to say constructively. Ignored.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - John K - 08-14-2008
solo Wrote:dear john k
I am very sorry to hear that from a citizen of kazakhstan.
I am sorry that you can see nothing, or you do not want to see anything, or you have watched only russian channels (that's may be the worst version).
This conflict in samachablo (or s. ossetia) as well as conflict in abkhazia was inspired by russians, and believe me the aim of russian federation surely is not connected with the wish to make ossetians free and happy. It is funny that russians don't even bother to cover their real aims.
asnwer me, please, how independent your country is and how much does it depend on russia?
what do you think about putin or medvedev? How do you think, all that they have done in chechnia, beslan is normal? are kazakhstan business people much concerned about that? Should i be thinking that they have stopped business relationship with russia after chechnia, or may be they did that after beslan?
what do you think about more then 260000 refugees from abkhazia, that are not allowed to return to their home place? why is this conflict so frozen? who needs that? who is bying georgians houses and lands in abkhazia?
So, my dear friend from kazakhstan, your people can invest or they can not, it's up to them, but mind of what you are talking before you accuse someone in things like nacizm.
by the way, speaking of hitler and nacizm, there are no skinheads killing and beating non - georgian population in georgia, but hopefully you have heard of some that violate peoples life in russia.
Please be sure that i'm always try to understand both sides of the story. I watch BBC, CNN, Euronews, Fox, even as russian channels. And I see that in Russia there's only one point of view. And the WEST gives only one point of view. That's why I can say that i have my own opinion.
I'm absolutely agree that the violation of borders is unacceptable. BUT - there's situation when it has to be. I'm absolutaly sure that if Russia wouln't broke into South Ossetia, we would still has a fighting.
And there was not 2000 civils died in Tsinkvali, but much much more. And from Georgian side too! Do you want it? Georgians wanted to fight witn whole nation! That could be a bi mistake! As it was Chechnya for Russia.
Do you want more georgians to be dead? You friends and your relatives could be among them! I'm sure you don't. It's better to live in peace!
I understand that South Ossetia will never survive without help o Russia. As Kosovo withot USA. It's absolutaly the same situations. Double standards of the WEST. And Georgia is just a pawn in the game. USA is don't care about Georgia, it's the politics. Do you understdand that thing?
I'l answer your questions:
Kazakhstan is much closer to Russia than to USA. But they both are strategic partners. It's the East rules of the game. We started building the oil-pipe to China, and that fact Russia don't like at all. But we started.
Kazakhstan as ussual plays with neutrality. Our government still did't said any attitude towards this conflict. Is i said - it's the East games
That's why i can say that we much much more independent than Georgia from USA, or Belarus from Russia. Chechnya is a great problem of Russia, And it appeared because of Yeltsin. I graduated from international relations faculty, that's why i know history well. The war in Chechnya is also heinous crime, both from Russian and Chechnya sides.
Talking about business - all i know that some people decided to stop all investments to Georgia. And as i said, in Chechnya both side were criminals, then no need to ignore one of them.
Speaking about Abkhaziya - it's very pitty about refugees. But only way to get Abkhaziya back - is to negotiate. It's better to be alive, than to be killed. Am i wrong?
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Caucasus - 08-14-2008
And do not blame Kazaks. I am Kazak. I know that there were sent only a few men to Ossetia. They were sent to organize evacuation of civilians from South to North Ossetia. They were sent there according to the agreement between Ossetia and Kuban Kazak Army, Georgia knew about it. We always keep our word. And some snipers went there to hunt georgian snipers. There are several positive results already. Too many news-case for several men. They phisically cannot be in different places simultaneously. And Kazaks are people of HONOR. They have no need to do bad things. Now think about you - breakers of peace agreements.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Gift - 08-14-2008
Caucasus Wrote:And do not blame Kazaks. I am Kazak. I know that there were sent only a few men to Ossetia. They were sent to organize evacuation of civilians from South to North Ossetia. They were sent there according to the agreement between Ossetia and Kuban Kazak Army, Georgia knew about it. We always keep our word. And some snipers went there to hunt georgian snipers. There are several positive results already. Too many news-case for several men. They phisically cannot be in different places simultaneously. And Kazaks are people of HONOR. They have no need to do bad things. Now think about you - breakers of peace agreements.That's right, kazaks' honor can be compared only to Japanese samurai - they could never rob any villages. They always used to be a certain elite of Russian army.