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Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - solo - 08-13-2008
ui, akedanac daaxvies
mec cavedi
aba kargad
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - qwerty - 08-13-2008
August 8, 2008, 6:30 pm
The View From Tskhinvali
By The New York Times
With the arrival of Russian troops in South Ossetia, a breakaway province of Georgia, a long-simmering conflict in the Caucasus has suddenly become an international crisis. The Times is asking several experts on the region to comment as the events unfold. Christopher Waters, a professor of law at the University of Windsor, is an expert on the law and politics of Georgia and other post-Soviet states.
South Ossetia, the breakaway province of Georgia, is normally a quiet, sleepy place. Tskhinvali, the capital, was ever only a provincial city and not much happens there on a day-to-day basis. There are few cars and few factories working, and people (or at least those who are still there, since so many were displaced and others have left for economic opportunity in Russia) just go about their daily lives. The line from Tbilisi, the capital of Georgia, is that Tshinvali is run by Russia — by Russian agents.
That is simply not true. There is a functioning government in South Ossetia that is run by South Ossetians. They have a parliament and a president and ministries, courts, and other institutions. They have had some relatively fair elections. The organs of the state do not function perfectly, but neither do they in Georgia or in Russia for that matter.
It is true that Russia has influence in South Ossetia. Indeed, most South Ossetians would like to join Russia (and in so doing be united with North Ossetia in the Russian federation). But this is not because they love Russia so much as that they see Russia as the only possible protection against Georgian aggression. I don’t want to minimize the Russian presence. Over 80 percent of South Ossetians have Russian passports, and Russian laws are the default laws unless changed by South Ossetian authorities, but I think this is a result of being an unrecognized “micro-state” as opposed to being some sort of agent-provocateurs for Russian expansionism.
One thing that is often misunderstood about this conflict is that it is not primarily about ethnic animosity. Unlike say Kosovo or even Abkhazia, ethnic Georgians and ethnic Ossetians do not generally have deep-seated antipathy for each other. When I was in Tskhinvali just before the Rose Revolution in Georgia in 2003, the baker across the street from where I was staying was a Georgian who came and stayed Monday through Friday and then went back to Georgia proper on the weekends. As my South Ossetian hosts explained, “Georgians are great bakers.” They can do business with each other and indeed were doing so before the posturing by Tbilisi and Moscow increased. In many ways the Ossetians are simply caught in the middle on this one.
What are the issues right now? Restraining the hawks on the Georgian side. The Georgian foreign minister is a peace-loving person, but I’ll be frank: President Mikheil Saakashvili has always been a bit of a hothead. And, of course, restraining Russia from further incursions into Georgian airspace. South Ossetia and Georgia shouldn’t be made to pay for Russia’s anger over Kosovo and NATO expansionism. The humanitarian issues for the ordinary people caught in the crossfire are paramount throughout.
It is difficult to see Russia agreeing to an immediate cease-fire without significant pressure, but a negotiated settlement — for example, a gradual replacement of Russian “peacekeepers” with U.N. peacekeepers — is possible in this conflict. At one point there were actually joint Georgian-Russian patrols and other confidence-building measures, and there’s no reason this state of affairs can’t be reinstated with a modicum of goodwill on both sides and some international brokering.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - k4despair - 08-13-2008
solo Wrote:can you tell us the name of that general?it will take time to find out. that was before the war. those news are now covered by lots of last days statements. i will try.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - qwerty - 08-13-2008
Georgian President’s Accusations Grow
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By MITCHELL L. BLUMENTHAL
Published: August 13, 2008
President Mikheil Saakashvili of Georgia, who has appeared repeatedly on Western television during the days of conflict with Russia, made frantic and apparently overstated warnings on Wednesday that Russian troops were poised to enter the Georgian capital, Tbilisi.
Skip to next paragraph
Related
Q & A on Georgia (July 14, 2008)
Bush Sends Aid to Georgia as Russians Occupy a City (August 14, 2008)
In an interview on CNN, the Georgian president said the Russians “are closing on the capital, circling,” with the intention of establishing their own government.
“We will protect our capital with our last drop of our blood,” he said. “We will never surrender.”
But he also blamed the West for not intervening more forcefully, nearly a week after hostilities broke out between Georgia and its much larger neighbor.
“Frankly, my people feel let down by the West,” he said.
Mr. Saakashvili spoke amid much confusion on the ground. Early on Wednesday, Georgia and Russia agreed to a cease-fire that apparently called for the troops of both sides to pull back to positions occupied before fighting broke out last week.
But the exact details of the pact remained unclear, and Russian troops appeared to be controlling access to the central city of Gori, which is outside of the disputed South Ossetia and only 40 miles from Tbilisi. Moreover, a column of Russian troops had been reported to be heading toward the capital on Wednesday before pulling off the road.
Asked about the cease-fire, Mr. Saakashvili said the Russians “never meant a cease-fire.”
“This is the kind of cease-fire they had in Afghanistan,” he added.
“They even steal toilet seats, I’ve been hearing,” he said.
He made repeated references not only to the Soviet Union’s war in Afghanistan in the 1970s, but also to the invasion Prague in 1968 and even repeated references to the German invasion of Poland before the start of World War II.
As for how he planned to halt the formidable Russian forces if they indeed headed toward Tbilisi, he said, “This will not be only Georgian troops” but an “all-out defense.”
“Freedom is worth fighting for,” he said, adding that his country was doing this “not only for us but for the rest of Europe.”
Asked if the White House was doing enough, he said: “I just spoke to President Bush. Frankly, some of the first statements were seen as a green light for Russia. They were kind of soft.”
He said, “Georgia is the first test case.”
He said the United State should be doing more. “We should realize what is at stake for America; America is losing the whole region,” he said.
“Who else can stand up for liberty in the world?”
As for reports that he was warned not to instigate a conflict by sending troops to South Ossetia, Mr. Saakashvili said angrily: “I’m sickened of this cynical and unfounded allegation. Our troops were always there. It’s our territory. They’re killing our people.”
He dismissed allegations that Georgia started the fighting. “How can we attack Russia?” he asked. “That’s the ludicrous thing.”
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - solo - 08-13-2008
qwerty Wrote:August 8, 2008, 6:30 pm
The View From Tskhinvali
By The New York Times
With the arrival of Russian troops in South Ossetia, a breakaway province of Georgia, a long-simmering conflict in the Caucasus has suddenly become an international crisis. The Times is asking several experts on the region to comment as the events unfold. Christopher Waters, a professor of law at the University of Windsor, is an expert on the law and politics of Georgia and other post-Soviet states.
South Ossetia, the breakaway province of Georgia, is normally a quiet, sleepy place. Tskhinvali, the capital, was ever only a provincial city and not much happens there on a day-to-day basis. There are few cars and few factories working, and people (or at least those who are still there, since so many were displaced and others have left for economic opportunity in Russia) just go about their daily lives. The line from Tbilisi, the capital of Georgia, is that Tshinvali is run by Russia — by Russian agents.
That is simply not true. There is a functioning government in South Ossetia that is run by South Ossetians. They have a parliament and a president and ministries, courts, and other institutions. They have had some relatively fair elections. The organs of the state do not function perfectly, but neither do they in Georgia or in Russia for that matter.
It is true that Russia has influence in South Ossetia. Indeed, most South Ossetians would like to join Russia (and in so doing be united with North Ossetia in the Russian federation). But this is not because they love Russia so much as that they see Russia as the only possible protection against Georgian aggression. I don’t want to minimize the Russian presence. Over 80 percent of South Ossetians have Russian passports, and Russian laws are the default laws unless changed by South Ossetian authorities, but I think this is a result of being an unrecognized “micro-state” as opposed to being some sort of agent-provocateurs for Russian expansionism.
One thing that is often misunderstood about this conflict is that it is not primarily about ethnic animosity. Unlike say Kosovo or even Abkhazia, ethnic Georgians and ethnic Ossetians do not generally have deep-seated antipathy for each other. When I was in Tskhinvali just before the Rose Revolution in Georgia in 2003, the baker across the street from where I was staying was a Georgian who came and stayed Monday through Friday and then went back to Georgia proper on the weekends. As my South Ossetian hosts explained, “Georgians are great bakers.” They can do business with each other and indeed were doing so before the posturing by Tbilisi and Moscow increased. In many ways the Ossetians are simply caught in the middle on this one.
What are the issues right now? Restraining the hawks on the Georgian side. The Georgian foreign minister is a peace-loving person, but I’ll be frank: President Mikheil Saakashvili has always been a bit of a hothead. And, of course, restraining Russia from further incursions into Georgian airspace. South Ossetia and Georgia shouldn’t be made to pay for Russia’s anger over Kosovo and NATO expansionism. The humanitarian issues for the ordinary people caught in the crossfire are paramount throughout.
It is difficult to see Russia agreeing to an immediate cease-fire without significant pressure, but a negotiated settlement — for example, a gradual replacement of Russian “peacekeepers” with U.N. peacekeepers — is possible in this conflict. At one point there were actually joint Georgian-Russian patrols and other confidence-building measures, and there’s no reason this state of affairs can’t be reinstated with a modicum of goodwill on both sides and some international brokering.
note that. but actually it's better to read several authors. statistically it's more reliable.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - freevoice - 08-13-2008
[/quote]
I can..
but before can you explain me why russia ivaded Georgia in 1921?[/quote]
that was over 80 years ago, things have changed a lot. I admit it was a full invasion completely unacceptable made by the USSR, which has now fallen apart. But these are different times.[/quote]
more or less normal attitude..
Ok ..You know today the global politics is changing rapidly..Georgia is goin to join nato very soon..
Russia doesnt want so western neighbour..But its our choice..And Russia cant realize it unfortunately..
Russia dont really care about Ossetia or Abkhazia or about people living there..
These two conglict regions are weapon against georgia..whenever they want they can escalate situation adn show the west that georgia cant join nato or EU..
If there were some clever politicians in Kreml, they could understand that strong Nato member is on of the best choic for Russia..
But West and NATO sent clear messages that Georgia and Ukraine will join Nato and there is no doubt about it in any circumstances..
After this Russia has left no way but invade Georgia..Thats it..
But their attempt seems to be very unsuccesfull
[/quote]Good points, I must admit that Georgias enterence into NATO is not welcomed by Russia at all, therefore those are valuable points. However here are some views as to how this would benefit Saakashvili and the US;
1. As far as I know one of president Saakashvili's main targets when he was running for presidency was to restore Georgias unity, and up till now all diplomatic ways were futile therefore a quick takeover of the breakaway region would have allowed him to gain more support in Georgia among voters.
2. If this quick military action would succeed, then he would be granted NATO membership since the only thing holding that back was that no countries could join NATO with a current land conflict.
3. It should also be noted that if the military plan failed and if Russia reacted, then he would be able to join NATO anyway by saying that Georgia needs protection.
4. As I hope you know the US currently has a great role to play in Greorgian politics, so it should be noted that their interests must be considered. The intrests of the US are already explained earlier in the forum regarding their current elections, please look if you haven't done so already.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - IamGEORGIA - 08-13-2008
qwerty Wrote:August 8, 2008, 6:30 pm
The View From Tskhinvali
By The New York Times
With the arrival of Russian troops in South Ossetia, a breakaway province of Georgia, a long-simmering conflict in the Caucasus has suddenly become an international crisis. The Times is asking several experts on the region to comment as the events unfold. Christopher Waters, a professor of law at the University of Windsor, is an expert on the law and politics of Georgia and other post-Soviet states.
South Ossetia, the breakaway province of Georgia, is normally a quiet, sleepy place. Tskhinvali, the capital, was ever only a provincial city and not much happens there on a day-to-day basis. There are few cars and few factories working, and people (or at least those who are still there, since so many were displaced and others have left for economic opportunity in Russia) just go about their daily lives. The line from Tbilisi, the capital of Georgia, is that Tshinvali is run by Russia — by Russian agents.
That is simply not true. There is a functioning government in South Ossetia that is run by South Ossetians. They have a parliament and a president and ministries, courts, and other institutions. They have had some relatively fair elections. The organs of the state do not function perfectly, but neither do they in Georgia or in Russia for that matter.
It is true that Russia has influence in South Ossetia. Indeed, most South Ossetians would like to join Russia (and in so doing be united with North Ossetia in the Russian federation). But this is not because they love Russia so much as that they see Russia as the only possible protection against Georgian aggression. I don’t want to minimize the Russian presence. Over 80 percent of South Ossetians have Russian passports, and Russian laws are the default laws unless changed by South Ossetian authorities, but I think this is a result of being an unrecognized “micro-state” as opposed to being some sort of agent-provocateurs for Russian expansionism.
One thing that is often misunderstood about this conflict is that it is not primarily about ethnic animosity. Unlike say Kosovo or even Abkhazia, ethnic Georgians and ethnic Ossetians do not generally have deep-seated antipathy for each other. When I was in Tskhinvali just before the Rose Revolution in Georgia in 2003, the baker across the street from where I was staying was a Georgian who came and stayed Monday through Friday and then went back to Georgia proper on the weekends. As my South Ossetian hosts explained, “Georgians are great bakers.” They can do business with each other and indeed were doing so before the posturing by Tbilisi and Moscow increased. In many ways the Ossetians are simply caught in the middle on this one.
What are the issues right now? Restraining the hawks on the Georgian side. The Georgian foreign minister is a peace-loving person, but I’ll be frank: President Mikheil Saakashvili has always been a bit of a hothead. And, of course, restraining Russia from further incursions into Georgian airspace. South Ossetia and Georgia shouldn’t be made to pay for Russia’s anger over Kosovo and NATO expansionism. The humanitarian issues for the ordinary people caught in the crossfire are paramount throughout.
It is difficult to see Russia agreeing to an immediate cease-fire without significant pressure, but a negotiated settlement — for example, a gradual replacement of Russian “peacekeepers” with U.N. peacekeepers — is possible in this conflict. At one point there were actually joint Georgian-Russian patrols and other confidence-building measures, and there’s no reason this state of affairs can’t be reinstated with a modicum of goodwill on both sides and some international brokering.
:haha :haha :haha first is bullshit..how can kokoiti run a government..i remmember his one angry interviw about his adminisrtation. He was very angry because people in parliamen were playng some computer games lol ill show a video then..
The second one is more or less true..
and lats on ewill happen in a few days..
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - IamGEORGIA - 08-13-2008
I can..
but before can you explain me why russia ivaded Georgia in 1921?[/quote]
that was over 80 years ago, things have changed a lot. I admit it was a full invasion completely unacceptable made by the USSR, which has now fallen apart. But these are different times.[/quote]
more or less normal attitude..
Ok ..You know today the global politics is changing rapidly..Georgia is goin to join nato very soon..
Russia doesnt want so western neighbour..But its our choice..And Russia cant realize it unfortunately..
Russia dont really care about Ossetia or Abkhazia or about people living there..
These two conglict regions are weapon against georgia..whenever they want they can escalate situation adn show the west that georgia cant join nato or EU..
If there were some clever politicians in Kreml, they could understand that strong Nato member is on of the best choic for Russia..
But West and NATO sent clear messages that Georgia and Ukraine will join Nato and there is no doubt about it in any circumstances..
After this Russia has left no way but invade Georgia..Thats it..
But their attempt seems to be very unsuccesfull
[/quote]Good points, I must admit that Georgias enterence into NATO is not welcomed by Russia at all, therefore those are valuable points. However here are some views as to how this would benefit Saakashvili and the US;
1. As far as I know one of president Saakashvili's main targets when he was running for presidency was to restore Georgias unity, and up till now all diplomatic ways were futile therefore a quick takeover of the breakaway region would have allowed him to gain more support in Georgia among voters.
2. If this quick military action would succeed, then he would be granted NATO membership since the only thing holding that back was that no countries could join NATO with a current land conflict.
3. It should also be noted that if the military plan failed and if Russia reacted, then he would be able to join NATO anyway by saying that Georgia needs protection.
4. As I hope you know the US currently has a great role to play in Greorgian politics, so it should be noted that their interests must be considered. The intrests of the US are already explained earlier in the forum regarding their current elections, please look if you haven't done so already.[/quote]
Interesting..definetely agree with some points..I ll say some details:
1. well its true..but elections are in 4 years, so it played the leas important role
2. Yes..Its not a secret..but NATO has clearly announced that in the case of georgia, there can be some exception ..
4. Us has its interesets of course..ANd our interest to join western democracy is in accordance with their interests..
No small country can survive if he thinks as his big Neighbour - Niecshe..Absolute truth...
Nobody says that they dont have interest here..But they recognize our teritorial integritu and helps us unite country..
P.S. if russia has some clever politiciasn as ive said, then Georgia -Russia aliance could be one og the strongest.
But now, almost 95 percent of georgians do not want even hear about russia..
Its fact
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - qwerty - 08-13-2008
A piece from today's NY Times. Q&A on Georgia. Very informative on what to expect further.
Is This Different Than Kosovo?
A. Russia makes just this comparison, arguing that Abkhazia and South Ossetia are ethnic enclaves threatened by a violent neighbor, just as the West says that Kosovo was. Georgia conducted very bloody wars with both republics in the early '90s; atrocities were committed on all sides. Georgia's behavior sowed hatred, which is still very much alive, and which the Georgians, in general, refuse to acknowledge. But differences in degree matter.
Slobodan Milosevic is estimated to have killed tens of thousands of Bosnians before he got around to his campaign of ethnic cleansing in Kosovo. The West had every reason to fear that he would not rest until Kosovo was rid of Kosovars. NATO's decision to roll back the Serbian onslaught was thus based on real expectations of the unspeakable.
In South Ossetia, on the other hand, Georgia engaged in shelling that may have been indiscriminate — we don't know yet.
Serbia engaged in a campaign of ethnic cleansing, first against Bosnia, then against Kosovo; what the Serbs did in the Balkans is worse by far than anything the Georgians did in their own neighborhood. Nevertheless, having said that, Georgia never fully reckoned with the strength of nationalist feeling in both areas.
Are Reports of Atrocities Credible?
A. Hudson: The Russians and the Ossetians have been floating a series of appalling claims since the hostilities began. But are they true? This is a region in which virtually all military acts are denounced as "ethnic cleansing," if not "genocide." Russia has even sought to invoke the doctrine known as "responsibility to protect," arguing that troops invaded Georgia in order to prevent atrocities against Ossetians. Since it seems that Georgia had already withdrawn its troops from Ossetia, this was probably a specious claim.
Skip to next paragraph
Related
Battle Cry: Taunting the Bear (August 10, 2008)
But the fact that the reports cannot be taken at face value doesn't mean that they're without foundation. Independent eyewitnesses have confirmed that major damage was done in the Ossetian capital of Tshkanvili, perhaps by Georgian artillery. Many civilians may have died. But it will be some while yet before these claims can be confirmed — or, for that matter, before we have an entirely clear idea of how the fighting started.
Did U.S. Intelligence Fail?
Q. Do you agree that the apparent failure of U.S. intelligence to anticipate that the Georgians were planning an assault on South Ossetia and that the Russians were in position to intervene very rapidly is a major error? Also how can it be that the United States had not warned Mr. Saakashvili that an assault would lead to a disaster?
A. I’m not sure that you can harshly criticize American intelligence for not predicting exactly when fighting would break out. There have been regular skirmishes in the disputed territory of South Ossetia for months between Georgian troops, fighters loyal to the South Ossetian separatist govenrment and Russian forces. Analysts have long suggested that conflicts over either South Ossetia or Abkhazia might spark a wider war. The question was when. The issue of whether the United States adequately warned Mr. Saakashvili about the perils of engaging the Russians is just as complicated. American diplomats have insisted that while they assured Mr. Saakashvili that the United States was a staunch ally of Georgia, they also made clear that the alliance went only so far. They say they warned him that a war with Russia would be catastrophic. Regarding sanctions, such a move seems very unlikely. Russia is one of the world’s major suppliers of oil and gas, especially to Europe. Washington’s European allies would be in no mood to jeopardize their energy sources. And of course, Iran’s nuclear aspirations loom large here as well. Without Russia’s support in the United Nations Security Council, any action against Iran would be toothless.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - SiD - 08-13-2008
Look Georgia if you could acces Russian TV (but you cant becouse you too "free") you could see how in the FIRST day of conflict our officials claimed that our forces will not occupy your dear georgia bushia.
Your president claimed that Tbilisi were bombed by 50 Russian planes (he can perfectly see in the night and count every plane not to mention it is too big formation for Tbilisi). Well i wont bother to tell about all his lies well you can see them every day. Well you were so succesfull militarly that could kill thousands of civilians befere run back to Tbilisi and beg all who want to hear to "stop Russia". Your government betrayed you but you want to blame Russia for everything becouse it is easier. Our troops halted and everything is settled for peace you just wait and see, no one wants to destroy or occupie your country. But you must show will for peace either from your claims i can see that all you want is more of this war.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - k4despair - 08-13-2008
solo Wrote:k4despair Wrote:IamGEORGIA Wrote:Other part of refugees are in Vladikavkaz..Do you know when these refugees have left to cladikavkaz? 10 days before war started..Why did they left? Russina peacekeepers took them from the city without any reason..Its make us think that they have planned to start some provocation..
A day before Saakashvili's invasion one of georgian generals said, that he surely knows that there is no evacuation from Ossetia and "people just send children to have summer rest, as they allways do". TV magic...
can you tell us the name of that general?
sorry, that was not general. it was Georgia state reintegration minister Jakobashvili (hope i spelled it right) in interview for georgian "Rustawi 2" dated by the 4th of August.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Caucasus - 08-14-2008
solo Wrote:Caucasus Wrote:solo Wrote:gift,who told you that civilian or cargo ship can attack by missles?
http://www.georgia-lies.narod.ru
They were military boats. If we are speaking about several missile fast-boats that attacked Russian ships.
Please pay attention that they made attacks not the only one time, but several times. So the Russian Navy was absolutely right...
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Caucasus - 08-14-2008
A day before Saakashvili's invasion one of georgian generals said, that he surely knows that there is no evacuation from Ossetia and "people just send children to have summer rest, as they allways do". TV magic...[/quote]
can you tell us the name of that general?[/quote]
sorry, that was not general. it was Georgia state reintegration minister Jakobashvili (hope i spelled it right) in interview for georgian "Rustawi 2" dated by the 4th of August.[/quote]
It were Georgians who left Tskhinval before the Georgia's agression against South Ossetia. And you can find video of Georgian fist bombing Ossetia at http://www.georgia-lies.narod.ru or just type "Ossetia" on YouTube.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Gift - 08-14-2008
About NATO neighbours..
We'd welcome a NATO member that is sane :-) Not a psycopath Suck-ashvili who can break any international or peace treaty in a blink of an eye
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - sophie - 08-14-2008
This is amazing u know, how people are saying that Georgia has intervened in South Ossetia and that some blame Georgia for the actions it has never and would never do.
I am Georgian living in Tbilisi, u cant even imagine how it feels like to be in a constant fear that now a bomb will fly in and u never know where it is directed. I wish no one will ever feel the same.
The actions Russians undertook in 21st century is totally unacceptable. After a cease-fire agreement was reached Russia still deepened into Georgian city Gori where a mass murders of civillian population were taking place, they were raping women and if there is resistance from the others they were killing them selfishly. The west Georgia is devastated. People are in shock.
this week was the worst days in my life :-(
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - IamGEORGIA - 08-14-2008
Caucasus Wrote:A day before Saakashvili's invasion one of georgian generals said, that he surely knows that there is no evacuation from Ossetia and "people just send children to have summer rest, as they allways do". TV magic...
can you tell us the name of that general?[/quote]
sorry, that was not general. it was Georgia state reintegration minister Jakobashvili (hope i spelled it right) in interview for georgian "Rustawi 2" dated by the 4th of August.[/quote]
It were Georgians who left Tskhinval before the Georgia's agression against South Ossetia. And you can find video of Georgian fist bombing Ossetia at http://www.georgia-lies.narod.ru or just type "Ossetia" on YouTube.[/quote]
Pay attention what a reliable website it is..
:haha
Gorgians were leaving Tskinvali after separatists started bombing georgian villages..
uper
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - John K - 08-14-2008
sophie, you afraid of the bombs saying how it's terrible to hear the sounds of the falling bomb.
Then why you didn't stop Saakashvilli when he broked into South Ossetia??
Don't you think that people of South Ossetia are afraid of the bombs too? And the also want to live! Same as you!
Why we shoud regret about georgians if georgians started that war??
Those who started the war are guilty in deaths! Saakashvili is a ne Hitler! And those who support him and his actions are also guilty in deaths of ossetians and georgians!
I'm not from Russia, i'm from Kazakhstan. And in Kazakhstan people had a great and very warm attitude towards Georgia, kazakhstanian business people invested a lot of money in Georgia.
But now it' gone. Georgians wrong
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Nana - 08-14-2008
John K Wrote:I'm not from Russia, i'm from Kazakhstan. And in Kazakhstan people had a great and very warm attitude towards Georgia, kazakhstanian business people invested a lot of money in Georgia.
But now it' gone. Georgians wrong
Of course, you don't want to make angry your Big neighbour, you do everything to get them happy.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - IamGEORGIA - 08-14-2008
Georgian Villages in South Ossetia Burnt, Looted
(Java, August 13, 2008) – Human Rights Watch researchers in South Ossetia on August 12, 2008, saw ethnic Georgian villages still burning from fires set by South Ossetian militias...
In South Ossetia, Human Rights Watch researchers traveling on the evening of August 12 on the road from the town of Java to Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, witnessed terrifying scenes of destruction in four villages that used to be populated exclusively by ethnic Georgians. According to the few remaining local residents, South Ossetian militias that were moving along the road looted the Georgian villages and set them on fire. Human Rights Watch saw numerous vehicles carrying South Ossetian militia members, as well as Russian military transports moving in the direction of Tskhinvali.
...Human Rights Watch researchers also saw armed Ossetian militia members in camouflage fatigues taking household items – furniture, television sets, heaters, suitcases, carpets, and blankets – out of houses in the village of Nizhnie Achaveti and loading them into their trucks. Explaining the looters’ actions, an Ossetian man told Human Rights Watch, “Of course, they are entitled to take things from Georgians now – because they lost their own property in Tskhinvali and other places.” ...
A woman from Tsair, who fled with her two small children, said that her husband and brother were both in the militia, and told Human Rights Watch that the Georgian soldiers stole whatever money she kept at the house. They also took away the rifle that the men in the family had left behind as well as the passports of the residents, all of whom have citizenship in the Russian Federation.
Another woman from Tsinachari told Human Rights Watch that on August 8, a group she was with was stopped in the woods by the Georgian military. According to the woman, the soldiers said, “Tell your men not to open fire. If they don’t shoot we aren’t going to shoot either.”
Human rights watch..
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Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - IamGEORGIA - 08-14-2008
John K Wrote:sophie, you afraid of the bombs saying how it's terrible to hear the sounds of the falling bomb.
Then why you didn't stop Saakashvilli when he broked into South Ossetia??
Don't you think that people of South Ossetia are afraid of the bombs too? And the also want to live! Same as you!
Why we shoud regret about georgians if georgians started that war??
Those who started the war are guilty in deaths! Saakashvili is a ne Hitler! And those who support him and his actions are also guilty in deaths of ossetians and georgians!
I'm not from Russia, i'm from Kazakhstan. And in Kazakhstan people had a great and very warm attitude towards Georgia, kazakhstanian business people invested a lot of money in Georgia.
But now it' gone. Georgians wrong
Unfortunately you cant see the difference..
Georgia is tryiong to defend himslef and our citizens..
And Russia tries to invade georgian teritory OSsetia, and then whole Georgia,,
This wans not very succesful step from Russia...
uper
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Gift - 08-14-2008
sophie Wrote:This is amazing u know, how people are saying that Georgia has intervened in South Ossetia and that some blame Georgia for the actions it has never and would never do.
I am Georgian living in Tbilisi, u cant even imagine how it feels like to be in a constant fear that now a bomb will fly in and u never know where it is directed. I wish no one will ever feel the same.
The actions Russians undertook in 21st century is totally unacceptable. After a cease-fire agreement was reached Russia still deepened into Georgian city Gori where a mass murders of civillian population were taking place, they were raping women and if there is resistance from the others they were killing them selfishly. The west Georgia is devastated. People are in shock.
this week was the worst days in my life :-(
oh yeah? Go to Tskhinvali and see what happens there
Talk to Ossetian refugees too. There's no one to blame but your insane president.You want to say that Georgia never bombed Ossetia, neither killed civilians and peacekeepers?
There are new evidences - interviews with common Ossetian men and women from Tskhinvali. They say: Georgian soldiers kicked Ossetian women to the ground and shot their heads off. They ran along Tskhinvali streets and shouted in ossetian language: "All is over, we won!" and when civilians crawled out of cellars - they shot everybody, children and women. That was BEFORE Russian "invasion".
Yesterday all Russia was moaning for humanitarian catastrophe in South Ossetia.
That's a great disaster if Russian soldiers really behave as they shouldn't, but don't forget where and who started all this.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - IamGEORGIA - 08-14-2008
Gift Wrote:sophie Wrote:This is amazing u know, how people are saying that Georgia has intervened in South Ossetia and that some blame Georgia for the actions it has never and would never do.
I am Georgian living in Tbilisi, u cant even imagine how it feels like to be in a constant fear that now a bomb will fly in and u never know where it is directed. I wish no one will ever feel the same.
The actions Russians undertook in 21st century is totally unacceptable. After a cease-fire agreement was reached Russia still deepened into Georgian city Gori where a mass murders of civillian population were taking place, they were raping women and if there is resistance from the others they were killing them selfishly. The west Georgia is devastated. People are in shock.
this week was the worst days in my life :-(
oh yeah? Go to Tskhinvali and see what happens there
You want to say that Georgia never bombed Ossetia, neither killed civilians and peacekeepers?
There are new evidences - interviews with common Ossetian men and women from Tskhinvali. They say: Georgian soldiers kicked Ossetian women to the ground and shot their heads off. They ran along Tskhinvali streets and shouted in ossetian language: "All is over, we won!" and when civilians crawled out of cellars - they shot everybody, children and women. That was BEFORE Russian "invasion".
Yesterday all Russia was moaning for humanitarian catastrophe in South Ossetia.
That's a great disaster if Russian soldiers really behave as they shouldn't, but don't forget where and who started all this.
Total lies!Youd better go in tskinvali and see what kind of bombs have fallen there..
we dont have this kind of ammunition ...Its fact..Before you say something you should know the exact facts..
We have 30 000 refugees here in tbilisi from Tskimvali and nearby villages, and we have more accurate and true information..
Yes we attacked Tskinvali, our city, to clen it from separatiist terorists.. From Kokoity and his criminal gangs.And we did it...russian peacekkeper backed these terorists and we destoyed them too..In ossetia arrived one of the oprestigious military unit, they are all destroyed, because of invading georgia illegally..
nobody can come and shoot to our civilians..Will it be russian a\or whoever..
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Gift - 08-14-2008
IamGEORGIA Wrote:Total lies!Youd better go in tskinvali and see what kind of bombs have fallen there..Great. Perfect separatist gangs consisting of women, old men and children.
we dont have this kind of ammunition ...Its fact..Before you say something you should know the exact facts..
We have 30 000 refugees here in tbilisi from Tskimvali and nearby villages, and we have more accurate and true information..
Yes we attacked Tskinvali, our city, to clen it from separatiist terorists.. From Kokoity and his criminal gangs.And we did it...russian peacekkeper backed these terorists and we destoyed them too..In ossetia arrived one of the oprestigious military unit, they are all destroyed, because of invading georgia illegally..
nobody can come and shoot to our civilians..Will it be russian a\or whoever..
Do you remember that Russia has international peacekeeping rights up to 1992 and 1999 treaties - Russian army has the right to stop violence and genocide - even with force. Do you remember that Russia and other countries tried to convince your government to stop this madness? You didn't understand - so we had to use force - and that was LEGAL, mark you.
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Annet85 - 08-14-2008
I have read all the replies and that's what I want to say to all of you: Each of you (users from US, Russians, Georgians and other ones) of course will keep to the point of view on this situation of his own country, and you will never persuade each other in the return...but during this discussion we will though inform each other with the facts that our governments show us. We will know your opinion and you will know our one.
Now my opinion:
It is very pity that this awfull situation happened, but we are all waiting for peace, because this conflict isn't needed for all of the sides. Do you want to live and be pleased life? Of course YES. Let's try to make peace as soon as possible, my dears!
I'm from Russia, and I also would like to confirm that all the information you get from your TVchannels or Radio channels is merely propaganda that my country is a monster. We are not a moonster! We just defend our people...I can't add something now, because the other people, that said about Georgia first invasion into Osset and its cruel actions, have already explained the real situation...THE REAL SITUATION! I'm and all russians are staying in shock from this impudence and feeling of permissiveness from the side of Georgian president!
Re: Georgia and South Ossetia at war - Caucasus - 08-14-2008
sophie Wrote:This is amazing u know, how people are saying that Georgia has intervened in South Ossetia and that some blame Georgia for the actions it has never and would never do.YOU, I again stress, YOU MUST REMEMBER (YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO FORGET) THAT THERE WERE 14 (FOURTEEN) YEARS OF PEACE IN THIS CONFLICT BEFOFE GEORGIA ( I stress once more) G-E-O-R-G-I-A has launched a surprise attak on South Ossetia. Georgia has broken all peace agreements that were SIGNED by Georgia. Georgia lies every time. Just remember your president was speaking of his "peace proposals" in several hours before bombing of Tskhinval started. All this false proposals were a part of desinformation for western mass media. At that very moment Georgian troops were coming to their fire positions near Tskhinval. So you President is an ordinary LIER. According to the international agreements Georgian Army had no rigts to keep bombing and shelling Tskhinaval for 16 hours. It was illegal. Georgian army had no right even approach Ossetian border according to the SIGNED INTERNATIONAL agreements. They had no right to kill civil peole and peacekeepers. For those who doesn't know "Grad" cannot fire precisely - the highest sharpness of firing is +/- 90-100 meters. It is usually used when it is need to totally destroy a wide area. It is not a cannon or a gun. It can fire several missiles in one second. How many seconds are in 16 hours of constant bombing, do you can count? Saakashvili is a trator of Georgian people. Greater part of your soldiers were thinking they were going on training shooting, not on the war. And some of the units that were made of FOREIGN soldiers (Ukranian, Arab, American) were under DRUG intoxication. Don't forget that Russia acted fully just as it was written in the agreements. Russia was even OBLIGED to act as it did by those agreements. If you stiil believe that your troops were right in killing people - you are either MAD, or ordinary FASCIST. Not only you are in shock, we are in shock how cowardly your President has broken the legal agreements. We do not belive any word of him now. He is not a MAN at all. He cannot keep his word. He speaks about democracy, pretending that Georgia is a "beacon of Democracy", but he kills his political opponents, he censores your phone calls, he regulates your access to Internet, you cannot visit Russian web-sites or watch Russian TV channels... Here in Russia (which is not free to your opinion) we can watch any channel on our taste. CNN, BBC, Euronews any ... We have unlimited access to Internet... We can read any newspaper be it Russian, American or German.. Can you see the difference?
I am Georgian living in Tbilisi, u cant even imagine how it feels like to be in a constant fear that now a bomb will fly in and u never know where it is directed. I wish no one will ever feel the same.
The actions Russians undertook in 21st century is totally unacceptable. After a cease-fire agreement was reached Russia still deepened into Georgian city Gori where a mass murders of civillian population were taking place, they were raping women and if there is resistance from the others they were killing them selfishly. The west Georgia is devastated. People are in shock.
this week was the worst days in my life :-(