European Union Forums

[the globe]

Dear Sir/Madam,
In 1993 Russian occupants expatriate from Abkhazia region of Georgia about 250 000 (more then 45 % of total population of Abkhazia) Georgian civilians. Thousands of them were brutally tortured to death. After this ethnic cleansing, the Russian government gave the Abkhaz separatists political, economic, as well as military supports. Abkhaz separatists misappropriate the property of Georgian refugees. Afterwards Russia carried out a referendum for independence of Abkhazia. Recently Russian occupants entered the Kodori gorge (a region of Abkhazia until recently controlled by Georgian government), as well as South Ossetia to commit a new act of ethnic cleansing. Houses of Georgian civilians have been burned. Russians did not permit the International Red Cross to this regions. Now it is Georgia, but who is the next? Where is the World?

[the globe]

You are sleeping. Thank you for your prolonged silence….

[Frederic]

You are sleeping. Thank you for your prolonged silence….

I think pro russians on this forum don`t have any arguments on these facts. That`s all.

[Benn]

Hello "the globe", why don't you provide us some links about the things you are talking about, so that we know these are facts and not propaganda. Thanks

[the globe]

Dear Benn,
15 May 2008 General Assembly of U.N.O approved a resolution concerning homecoming of Georgian refugees to Abkhazia. Russian, as well as Iran, Venezuela, North Korea, Serbia, Syria, Sudan, Byelorussia voted against this resolution. If you want, you can check it. As to the recent act of ethnic cleansing in South Ossetia, I can address you to an interview of the leader of Ossetian separatist Kokoity (Medvedev and Putin often meet him in Kremlin) in the Russian newspaper “Komersant”. He said that Ossetian militants “fully cleaned out” Georgian villages on the territory of unrecognized republic, and Ossetians never permit them (Georgians) come back. Unfortunately, I can not tell you an exact number of this newspaper (I red it in internet), but it was in last week.

[the globe]

So-called Russian “peacemakers” killed Georgian civilians by cluster bombing. If anybody has a doubt, please, visit the website of Human Rights Watch to see video of bombing of Georgian town Gori.

[SiD]

You are sleeping. Thank you for your prolonged silence….

I think pro russians on this forum don`t have any arguments on these facts. That`s all.

No. If we will be engaged in discussion that would mean we accept that such problem exists.

[Eka]

You are sleeping. Thank you for your prolonged silence….

I think pro russians on this forum don`t have any arguments on these facts. That`s all.

No. If we will be engaged in discussion that would mean we accept that such problem exists.

But this kind of disscusions are during many days on this forum and one aditional topic makes you so furious that you refused to post your ideas here?

I can recomend you to look ar this link: http://www.echo.msk.ru/programs/code/535706-echo.phtml

Maybe you will have some ideas. Saakashvili is critisized here, but point of view is interesting.

NOw about ethnic clinsing of Georgians. If somebody is intrestng in figures , they are all here, on forum. All georgians here are disputing with facts, sometimes with emotions, but mostly with facts. Poll which is in another topic during many days is representing same proportion of votes. So all this discussion does not "help" much to pro-russian propaganda.

I strongly believe that in RUssia not all population is as SId. I can undestand him . He is " affected with virus"-Russian nacionlizm. He belives that there is "great Russia" "Velikaia rosia" - I agree that its rally great, but only by size. Grate not always clever. Russian have such proverb "If you are strong you dont need brains." - sila est uma ne nado. So all hisotry of Russia is such history. We are great give as way, we are big you are small -so my intrest is to swallow you.And unfortunally last years idea of grea Russia becomes dominnante and putin even invents some kind of "Russian Democraty", which is democraty of " strong and great".

I suppose that future of Georgai will be dificulte but we will reach goal. And Future of Russia is under big Question mark, because as I know Russians, they are rethinking what happens after some time." pereosmislenie"- so they call it. And after it catarzis is coming. Of courese not in all people.

[SiD]

I strongly believe that in RUssia not all population is as SId. I can undestand him . He is " affected with virus"-Russian nacionlizm. He belives that there is "great Russia" "Velikaia rosia" - I agree that its rally great, but only by size. Grate not always clever. Russian have such proverb "If you are strong you dont need brains." - sila est uma ne nado. So all hisotry of Russia is such history. We are great give as way, we are big you are small -so my intrest is to swallow you.And unfortunally last years idea of grea Russia becomes dominnante and putin even invents some kind of "Russian Democraty", which is democraty of " strong and great".

I am almost under table . .cool.
Sorry cant even critic your post . Parhaps tommorow .

[Eka]

I strongly believe that in RUssia not all population is as SId. I can undestand him . He is " affected with virus"-Russian nacionlizm. He belives that there is "great Russia" "Velikaia rosia" - I agree that its rally great, but only by size. Grate not always clever. Russian have such proverb "If you are strong you dont need brains." - sila est uma ne nado. So all hisotry of Russia is such history. We are great give as way, we are big you are small -so my intrest is to swallow you.And unfortunally last years idea of grea Russia becomes dominnante and putin even invents some kind of "Russian Democraty", which is democraty of " strong and great".

I am almost under table . .cool.
Sorry cant even critic your post . Parhaps tommorow .

I am glad that at last you can smile a little, because as I understand Putin kills the last drops of humor sens in Russia as he kills there soul.( ubivaet dushu, kak u vas govoritsa).
But you are laughing in not appropriate palce. I am not joking. I am glad that truth put you under table at last.

You can critic my post when ever you like. YOu can watch your presidents speeches, your politicians speeches, your media, your electronic media too and if you can analize you can come to conclusion, that I am right. BUt ideology of Putin ( can you catch some links - Puti - Rasputin? Unfortunatly Rasputin was were harmfull for Russia and Putin will be same ) so called Putinizm makes you as blind as during USSr and KOmunizm era you were blind. Putins famous phrase is that greatest tragedy of 20-th cenntury was USSR collaps. So its only indicates that KGB officer ( and he was KGB officer in GDR - watchid east Germans not to do something bad. is still KGB oficer. So Russia president is former KGB with dreams about USSR. Its really makes me fall under the table. And after decades of stragle again Russia is becoming same as it was during komunizm and USSR.

[SiD]

I am glad that at last you can smile a little, because as I understand Putin kills the last drops of humor sens in Russia as he kills there soul.( ubivaet dushu, kak u vas govoritsa).
But you are laughing in not appropriate palce. I am not joking. I am glad that truth put you under table at last.

You can critic my post when ever you like. YOu can watch your presidents speeches, your politicians speeches, your media, your electronic media too and if you can analize you can come to conclusion, that I am right. BUt ideology of Putin ( can you catch some links - Puti - Rasputin? Unfortunatly Rasputin was were harmfull for Russia and Putin will be same ) so called Putinizm makes you as blind as during USSr and KOmunizm era you were blind. Putins famous phrase is that greatest tragedy of 20-th cenntury was USSR collaps. So its only indicates that KGB officer ( and he was KGB officer in GDR - watchid east Germans not to do something bad. is still KGB oficer. So Russia president is former KGB with dreams about USSR. Its really makes me fall under the table. And after decades of stragle again Russia is becoming same as it was during komunizm and USSR.

If Putin is touching a man, he turns into another Putin in black outfit and black eyglasses. .

[Eka]

I am glad that at last you can smile a little, because as I understand Putin kills the last drops of humor sens in Russia as he kills there soul.( ubivaet dushu, kak u vas govoritsa).
But you are laughing in not appropriate palce. I am not joking. I am glad that truth put you under table at last.

You can critic my post when ever you like. YOu can watch your presidents speeches, your politicians speeches, your media, your electronic media too and if you can analize you can come to conclusion, that I am right. BUt ideology of Putin ( can you catch some links - Puti - Rasputin? Unfortunatly Rasputin was were harmfull for Russia and Putin will be same ) so called Putinizm makes you as blind as during USSr and KOmunizm era you were blind. Putins famous phrase is that greatest tragedy of 20-th cenntury was USSR collaps. So its only indicates that KGB officer ( and he was KGB officer in GDR - watchid east Germans not to do something bad. is still KGB oficer. So Russia president is former KGB with dreams about USSR. Its really makes me fall under the table. And after decades of stragle again Russia is becoming same as it was during komunizm and USSR.

You have a little drops of humor?
Putin will ruin your country very soon.
As maybe you remember already on this forum we have discusions what will hapen with Russian economy after this war and you was the person who strongly disagrees with this. But its happening and happening sooner then I can emagine ( I am not economist, I am musician). So putinization or Rasputinization of Russia wil bring your country only great troubles. Ordinary citizens will fill this after some time.But rich people very soon.. They are much more dangerous then poor people.
If Putin is touching a man, he turns into another Putin in black outfit and black eyglasses. .

Yes he already touched many in Russian and they turned in putins ,even becames smaller as he is...

[Hakan G]

I am glad that at last you can smile a little, because as I understand Putin kills the last drops of humor sens in Russia as he kills there soul.( ubivaet dushu, kak u vas govoritsa).
But you are laughing in not appropriate palce. I am not joking. I am glad that truth put you under table at last.

You can critic my post when ever you like. YOu can watch your presidents speeches, your politicians speeches, your media, your electronic media too and if you can analize you can come to conclusion, that I am right. BUt ideology of Putin ( can you catch some links - Puti - Rasputin? Unfortunatly Rasputin was were harmfull for Russia and Putin will be same ) so called Putinizm makes you as blind as during USSr and KOmunizm era you were blind. Putins famous phrase is that greatest tragedy of 20-th cenntury was USSR collaps. So its only indicates that KGB officer ( and he was KGB officer in GDR - watchid east Germans not to do something bad. is still KGB oficer. So Russia president is former KGB with dreams about USSR. Its really makes me fall under the table. And after decades of stragle again Russia is becoming same as it was during komunizm and USSR.

If Putin is really a former KGB agent than the recent war shall not surprise anybody, it is actually the new political strategy of the new Russian empire.

[the globe]

I never had a high opinion of Putin, as well as of other Russian official. A world conquest is the Russian national idea starting from the middle Ages. There is a joke that an average Russian man as ever has the three deep desires: (i) to drink much vodka; (ii) neighbor’s cow to be died; (iii) to become Russia a world power. The problem is where is the World when Russia is occupying Georgia? When it carries ethnic cleansing? When it kills civilians and meanwhile cynically speaks about its “peacemaker role”? The World makes “strong” statements! Wow!!! Just bla, bla, bla. For your pipelines and strategic interests in Georgia we have been damaged. Russia doesn’t care the fortunes of Abkhaz/Ossetia nations. It was a casus belli. It wants more…

[the globe]

Present situation in Russian bears a strong resemblance to that in Germany of 30-th years:, aggressive behavior against neighboring states, nationalistic demagogy, fuehrer, aspiration for world supremacy, short-term economic take-off, blitzkrieg and anschluss of territory of a neighboring state upon the pretext of protection of alien residents, nation-wide giddiness due to early military successes, a connivance of some European countries, and eventually, a large-scale military adventure…..

[SiD]

Present situation in Russian bears a strong resemblance to that in Germany of 30-th years:, aggressive behavior against neighboring states, nationalistic demagogy, fuehrer, aspiration for world supremacy, short-term economic take-off, blitzkrieg and anschluss of territory of a neighboring state upon the pretext of protection of alien residents, nation-wide giddiness due to early military successes, a connivance of some European countries, and eventually, a large-scale military adventure…..

As always you forget that it was georgian aggression in the first place. Everyone knows that ewen your supporters aknowledge this fact. They just try to forget about it. As you do. We have stopped your agression that is true.

[TovarischZhivago]

(Aug. 27, 2008 – Moscow)
WAR IN OSSETIA – REPLY LIMITED – THE WEAK LINK

There’s been a lot of talk in the West about the West being limited
in its response to Russia’s conduct in Ossetia, etc.

To me, the limitations lie in the ethics, in the West's own culture -
not in politics or economics or military power.

It’s not even about the precedents and embarrassments such as Kosovo
or Iraq, where the West was/is debasing the values it claims to profess.

In the Ossetian war, the limitations came the moment everyone thought
that Georgia’s president could be right after all, might not be a totally
bad idea to use multiple-rockets on a city of 10 000, we just didn’t
expect Russia to reply, it came as a surprise.

The rest – ‘the bear is back!’, ‘say no to Russia, we won the cold war
and we will move on!’ – were variations on the theme, compensatory
reactions and Freudian slips, the West struggling with itself rather
than Russia.

The limitations multiplied when it was said, oh it looks like just a
handful of civilians were killed in Ossetia, how good that Russians
can’t prove anything.

It’s not to say that the West is evil and that there’s one single ‘West’.

To me, there’s a crisis of meaning, a sense of identity gone wrong –
it affects judgment and cuts at the moral base. You can’t bring together
a country or a group of countries based on consumer satisfaction and
military power alone, you’ll keep having problems with that.

Moscow
Russia

[the globe]

Before the war started Ossetians had their orders to do all they can to provoke the war. Separatists and so-called Russian “peacemakers” systematically fired to Georgian villages around Thkhinvali. They had killed many Georgian civilians. Russian backed separatists denied any negotiation for peace. Georgian government was forced to protect these villages. After recent occupation of Georgia, Russian “peacemakers” commit to the flames these villages to carry out ethnic cleansing. They are involved in looting, rape and killing of Georgian citizens. Russian soldiers are telling Georgians they are to leave their homes or die. They say they have their orders. It is all happening in Georgia proper around Tskhinvali.

Russia does not let the Red Cross in South Ossetia. Why?

Really, Russia starts this war to put obstacles in Georgia's way to NATO. Everyone knows this, even Its staunch supporters from Iran, Venezuela, North Korea, Syria, Sudan, Byelorussia and Hezbollah.

[Terry]

I heard yesterday a French official was calling to create a coalition against Russia, since an ethnic cleaning is expected in South Ossetia.

[Hakan G]

France is an example of what every democratic country should be. it was among the first to not just make statements but to take Actions in this terrific military conflict.

[Karl.in.eu]

Coalition or allies, means more military power, and this means more real ability to do something against Russia’s actions or to make some serious statements and not be afraid of it. But this can drive to a similar situation as a World War.
USA and Russia are already in a cold war. And this is not just me. A lot of voices in the global community have made affirmations regarding this.

[chena]

Present situation in Russian bears a strong resemblance to that in Germany of 30-th years:, aggressive behavior against neighboring states, nationalistic demagogy, fuehrer, aspiration for world supremacy, short-term economic take-off, blitzkrieg and anschluss of territory of a neighboring state upon the pretext of protection of alien residents, nation-wide giddiness due to early military successes, a connivance of some European countries, and eventually, a large-scale military adventure…..

As always you forget that it was georgian aggression in the first place. Everyone knows that ewen your supporters aknowledge this fact. They just try to forget about it. As you do. We have stopped your agression that is true.

If this was not about the war I would’ve been very proud for Georgians…they are threatening RUSSIA! Are you serious?

http://michaeltotten.com/

Go to the page and click on Latest Maps: Georgia. Each image is dated. You can watch the progression of the destruction basically day by day. There are also images of the burned areas in Borjomi national park.

http://unosat.web.cern.ch/unosat/

Also, below is a recent article from the Human Rights Watch website, and here is the link.
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2008/08 ... i19712.htm