European Union Forums

[neweuropean]

Many people believe free speech is a basic human right. Do you agree?

There are several restrictions already, that are based on many common
laws. Since every individual has equal rights, you are not allowed to make
untruthful remarks about someone else. That is called slander. You can't
call someone a liar, cheater, or robber, unless you can prove it. You also
can't encourage someone to kill another, as that is a form of assault.

But in this crazy "politically correct" world, it seems that now there is a
movement to control others speech if you "hurt their feelings", or "offend
their sensibilities", or again, if it's currently not "politically correct".

My own view is that anyone can say anything, as long as it's not slander
or assault. If I want to say the moon is made of green cheese, or I don't
think global warming is real, I am entitled to my opinion, and free to speak
my mind. It's your right to say you think I'm a nut-case.

There is a price to be payed for free speech, but I believe it should be
determined by the people, whether they accept or reject what you have
to say, and whether they want to associate with you or not.

I don't believe governments should legislate free speech, or send out
the 'thought police" to control you... What do you think?

[neweuropean]

How Hitler can send me to jail...
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Here's an interesting German law... off Wiki.
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§ 189 Disparagement of the Memory of Deceased Persons (1985,
amendments of 1992)

"Whoever disparages the memory of a deceased person shall be
punished with imprisonment for not more than two years or a
fine."

^ "§ 189 Verunglimpfung des Andenkens Verstorbener" (in
German). Bundesministerium der Justiz.
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Basically, you can't say bad things about the dead...

So technically, if I walk down the street, and say to
someone," I think Hitler was a jerk.", I can go to
prison for up to two years. Calling someone a "jerk" is
disparaging to them, and Hitler is deceased, so I just
broke the law...

If your father was abusive to your family, and
he dies; if someone walks up and says what a wonderful person
he was, and you say,"No, he was a low-life who abused his
family.", you could go to prison for up to two years. For
"disparaging" him, because he is now deceased...

That's the danger in making laws where you want to
control what someone says... sometimes it can have
unintended side effects. And its one of the first steps
away from a democratic and open society...

[Big_Becka]

I agree - here is another example. In the UK it is currently illegal to "incite religious hatred" under the Racial & Religious Hatred Act 2006.

This law has been used in recent years to tackle some of the extemist Muslim clerics living in the UK, who encourage terrorism. It should also protect young and vulnerable people from exposure to fundamentalism. However, it has been reported that some Asian communities feel victimised, as they now cannot express themselves freely.

A Christian can still knock on my door and tell me that Jews and Muslims are uncharitable, bad people who "look down their noses on others." Christians can still appear on TV and criticise the morality of others, with no evidence and misinformed reasoning. And there are a number of protestant churches and religious organisations who effectively scam money out of the vulnerable. Inceasingly, noone can openly challenge these people.

Surely we need to exercise our freedom of speech and have some open debate, instead of each community criticising the others unchallenged?

Another example is the many equality laws we have. An employer is not allowed to dicriminate on the basis of age, gender, race, religion or disability - they are not even allowed to ask you anything about these subjects at a job interview. Again, this is intended to protect women, minorities and the disabled.

As a woman of child-bearing age, I have now had a couple of jobs (and many, many interviews!) where the employer was very obviously anxious about my personal circumstances, and asked some pretty obscure questions to try and find out! I have also found that many employers will simply assume that you have a husband and children and lead a stereotypical christian family lifestyle (even if you tell them you don't!), and will automatically stop you being in a situation where you might have to work late or go on a business trip. Employers are also reluctant to train or promote women in case they leave to become a housewife, or suddenly start taking maternity leave!

Likewise, I have witnessed a company rejecting an applicant for a job because his name sounded Asian, and they assumed he would not want to move away from his community to work at other locations.

This, of course, effectively discriminates against those people the laws are intended to protect. Again, an open discussion might reveal that an applicant does not lead the assumed lifestyle: they might be gay, infertile, a single-parent family, or just a natural non-conformist..?

[Nathan]

My own view is that anyone can say anything, as long as it's not slander
or assault. If I want to say the moon is made of green cheese, or I don't
think global warming is real, I am entitled to my opinion, and free to speak
my mind. It's your right to say you think I'm a nut-case.

I agree with you. Freedom of speech I think is an important right, but it is not the MOST important one. You know, if people can tell everything they think but their opinions are not taken into account, their right is equal to zero. Moreover, there are much more "vital" problems which must be solved, such as poverty, illnesses, etc.