European Union Forums

[Lenus]

many of the posted photos are obviously photoshopped. I have knowledge in this area.

The remain number of photos are not enough?

[Lor]

What about the case of the 12 years old girl? Remember when the broadcast was interrupted for commercial break

Oh God that was an interview of a little girl that said she didn't see or hear any bombarding, but for sure they were Georgians:))) Very laughable. Why didn't they show interviews of refugees in Georgia? That would have more credibility for me. You know why? The channel that showed that little girl is called FOXnews and is the most imbecile tv channel that i jave ever seen. They "make" the news to have more ratings. People in US don't even watch it! It's a mascaraed, a moppets Show.

[Benn]

oh, and also the second Chechnya war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War

[SiD]

Before bring up Chechen wars ( there war 2 of them) you must choose your position , Russia was right or Russia was wrong.

SiD

I know perfectly well how many wars were in Chechnya.
To answer you question: Nobody can be right when it comes to ethno-cleansing.

Chechens were under genocide by Russians and Russians are wrong, of course.

Well we were defending our territorial integrity. You claim our government commitet genocide, our claims that Georgian government commited genocide. We can despute all day.
But what is important that you must admit that you tried to do the same in S Osetia, and your arguments about Chechnya are proving you wrong. So you can admit that you and i are using double standarts.
I realy do not need history lessons. It is all about territoryal integrity. So if you want to justify your position you must also justify ours in Chechnya. I am simplify things of course but i am just tired your Chechnya arguments. Georgia is wrong or do not bring up Chechen wars thats all.

[Lenus]

Well we were defending our territorial integrity. You claim our government commitet genocide, our claims that Georgian government commited genocide. We can despute all day.
But what is important that you must admit that you tried to do the same in S Osetia, and your arguments about Chechnya are proving you wrong. So you can admit that you and i are using double standarts.
I realy do not need history lessons. It is all about territoryal integrity. So if you want to justify your position you must also justify ours in Chechnya. I am simplify things of course but i am just tired your Chechnya arguments. Georgia is wrong or do not bring up Chechen wars thats all.

SiD,

I was once talking with a Russian Priest in Baku, he told me a remarkable sentence: Russian must be either a Saint or a Robber. There is no middle grounds.

I thought about it and every time I discuss something with Russians, every time I see something performed by Russian government, I keep rememeber that person's words.

Firstly, how can you judge and talk about teritorial integrity when I talk about ethnic cleanisng, commiting genocide over peaceful civilians? DO you know There were 40,000 Chechen Children killed during 10 years of Russian Military operations there? What is the matter, cannot your pilots see what they bomb?

Do you know it all was investigated and published by Anna Politkovskaya and as a result she was shot dead by her entrance in Moscow?

Do you deny the accusation, that Russians tried to kill as many Chechens as they could as there were no journalists around, no much cameras, nobody to judge their actions?

Do you deny that there was a Russian Colonel, who was arrested for raping the 13 year old Chechen girl, and when convicted, he received amnesty from Putin? What a sarcasm! How can these things possibly happen in this century??

Now tell me, what has my government done? anything like what you did?
Its not what you do SiD, its how you do it. Your government cannot behave like saints, so they behave themseves as bandits, always, everywhere.

[Snow]

You try to show Russians as a barbarians...you askes,how it's possible today...
i asked you too, how it's possible today killing people there for that they don't like being included in teritory of Georgia?
Let's remember history?In 1920 yeas georgian army try to kill all osetian people...and georgian army was stoped only by redarmy,but a lot of osetians were dead.Today happens so as a lot of years ago...georgian army would like to get out all osetians from South Osetia, and a power that stoped genocid of a peaceful people became Russia,which most of you accuse...may be smb of you prefer osetians die and Georgia get the teritiry of South Osetia for just georgian people,but today not happend so
Why Georgia w'd like kill all osetians and abhazians?it's simple,it's going more yeas ago...all time georgian people think that the osetians and abhazians teritories are their.Al time georgian nacionalists think that osetians and abhazians people are lower, it's like a little nacizm of a little population.That's why recently Saacashvili said that influence of his government whould covered all eh-teritories of Georgia anyway.
It's not my fancy.what i've write i have heard that from the georgian wife of my friend?i don't think,that she needs lie to me.
To the end,i don't won't to touch georgian people,only georgian nacionalists,who rules Georgia today
Evryone georgian guy i have told said the saim. Besides that no one din't remembered recent miting in Georgia where gathered 300 000 people who demanded of Saacashvili`s resignation and were dispersed by georgian police...

[SiD]

Well we were defending our territorial integrity. You claim our government commitet genocide, our claims that Georgian government commited genocide. We can despute all day.
But what is important that you must admit that you tried to do the same in S Osetia, and your arguments about Chechnya are proving you wrong. So you can admit that you and i are using double standarts.
I realy do not need history lessons. It is all about territoryal integrity. So if you want to justify your position you must also justify ours in Chechnya. I am simplify things of course but i am just tired your Chechnya arguments. Georgia is wrong or do not bring up Chechen wars thats all.

SiD,

I was once talking with a Russian Priest in Baku, he told me a remarkable sentence: Russian must be either a Saint or a Robber. There is no middle grounds.

I thought about it and every time I discuss something with Russians, every time I see something performed by Russian government, I keep rememeber that person's words.

Firstly, how can you judge and talk about teritorial integrity when I talk about ethnic cleanisng, commiting genocide over peaceful civilians? DO you know There were 40,000 Chechen Children killed during 10 years of Russian Military operations there? What is the matter, cannot your pilots see what they bomb?

Do you know it all was investigated and published by Anna Politkovskaya and as a result she was shot dead by her entrance in Moscow?

Do you deny the accusation, that Russians tried to kill as many Chechens as they could as there were no journalists around, no much cameras, nobody to judge their actions?

Do you deny that there was a Russian Colonel, who was arrested for raping the 13 year old Chechen girl, and when convicted, he received amnesty from Putin? What a sarcasm! How can these things possibly happen in this century??

Now tell me, what has my government done? anything like what you did?
Its not what you do SiD, its how you do it. Your government cannot behave like saints, so they behave themseves as bandits, always, everywhere.

My question was QUITE CLEAR and i warned that i do not need speculations or history lessons. If you want to use Chechen arguments you must support S Osetian and Akchazian independance too. Otherwise it is just double standarts nothing more.

[Eka]

1.You know Sid when I was a liitle girl living in USSR and I was so scared with kapitalizm and unimploiment in west. And meanwhile my perents were so “happy”living here. We have everything we need: govermantal small apartment, salary ( I don’t remember exactly but totaly monthly it was 120- 200 rubls). We were happy and so conserned about people in the west “ they have no jobs, US was military suppressing everyone and meanwile we were so happy...
Then USSR collapsed ( to be try we ,Georgians work lot on this last years especially) and I understand that whole life ( and I little bit was thinking about it) we vere living in the lies kommunists were telling us. And now I feel as if those times are coming back, but with little differances ( its 21 centure at last). Now this lies are goving forwars in Russians heads. West is horrible and we Russians are brave and great!
2. I don’t reject, yes you have history we know about and it was difficult times for Russia.Yes I know Minin and Pogarskiy ,and even more from your history, but you know something from my country history? We have huge problems in same time that you have. Its normal . Why we must compare histories of countries with each other. For egzample you won France ( 19 cent) and Germany ( 20-th together with Europe). And now this countries are much more prosperioys then yours. It means something for you? For me nothing.
We were 70 years together, so you must know a little bit. Why I must know and you no? Have you think ever about this things ? Maybe it was 15 republics and thats way? Or there was another reason? And you know that 500.000 Georgians died in ww2?
All nations lost population defending themselves, its nothing new and strange, so were Georgians, Caucasian people, Europeans and so on. American nation is mostly composed from people who escape from bloody and hungry Europe during centuries. So here you are no alone and is nothing special in your history. Even in this kind of issues you are trying to be different from everyone. Why? We all have long history of wars, straggles and victories.

3.".IF we given up you would speak German now!”- I don’t think so. But it is another topic to be discussed. For me Russian occupation of Georgia in 21-th century is same as German occupation Europe in 1939-1945. Victims are comparable to the period, now its more control of society, more media and so on.

4. Now about Chechnya – Territorial integrity is major point . So Russian was right to care about this. But methods ? – Putin turned Checheninas into terrorists, be more soroufull - after every explozian ( metro, theatre, buildings) his power and influence was growing and growing. It raises questions . Maybe I am not right but links are very tight. Chechnia undergoes serios ethnic clinsings or no? ( and please not tell about Kadirovs govermant, its funny). So I am sure if Russian must defend there tritories way we can not do this? It is prohibited for us? WE are different ? There are another laws for Russia and another for Georgia. Yes, I respect your territories ( what I personally think it is another thing, but as person who knows that international laws must be respected I will not concentrate on this ) so you must respect my territories too. Yes or no? Kosovo is totally different situation which is a little bit difficult to link with Georgia.


Caucasia and Russia it’s another serious topic world must discuss seriously. Problems there were always linked with each other and Russian wars in 19-th century were very hard and linked with many blood and muscle=playing. Caucasia will show its power won’t this Russia or no. When it happens no one knows. So blood and killing there are totally uncontrolled and will go further.
5. What US wants will be clear after elections. Russians”scared” them ,so more “iron” McCain is a little bit popular. So we will see it soon.

[Eka]

You try to show Russians as a barbarians...you askes,how it's possible today...
i asked you too, how it's possible today killing people there for that they don't like being included in teritory of Georgia?
Let's remember history?In 1920 yeas georgian army try to kill all osetian people...and georgian army was stoped only by redarmy,but a lot of osetians were dead.Today happens so as a lot of years ago...georgian army would like to get out all osetians from South Osetia, and a power that stoped genocid of a peaceful people became Russia,which most of you accuse...may be smb of you prefer osetians die and Georgia get the teritiry of South Osetia for just georgian people,but today not happend so
Why Georgia w'd like kill all osetians and abhazians?it's simple,it's going more yeas ago...all time georgian people think that the osetians and abhazians teritories are their.Al time georgian nacionalists think that osetians and abhazians people are lower, it's like a little nacizm of a little population.That's why recently Saacashvili said that influence of his government whould covered all eh-teritories of Georgia anyway.
It's not my fancy.what i've write i have heard that from the georgian wife of my friend?i don't think,that she needs lie to me.
To the end,i don't won't to touch georgian people,only georgian nacionalists,who rules Georgia today
Evryone georgian guy i have told said the saim. Besides that no one din't remembered recent miting in Georgia where gathered 300 000 people who demanded of Saacashvili`s resignation and were dispersed by georgian police...

Snow

I can not remeber moment in history when we killed osetians in 1920-th? Can you put here some serios and trastfull links( not osthetian and russian, but neutral) ? Its something new for me.
" people are lower" - this is not tipical for Georgians. And historical example is Georgains and Jews - 26 centure without any problem and conflict. Meanwile all ower world Jews were neglected and have problems ( in Russian so called " pogromi") we even dont know meaning of this word in Georgian. Its is only one example of our tolerance.
And you know whAT IS more strange - osethians are living all over Georgia and have no problems with us and even they live in some regions compactly but without problems.So why? can you answetr this quiestion?
If we are killing them from 1921 to nowadays, negelcted them, why we have osethian news channel.( IN OSETHIAN LENGUAGE!!!) Why we have theatre for OSethians and schools? Why we have qouatas for them in universityes? Why we have mixed families with them? and Finally today I meet with young woman - Manana Xetagurova. She is pregnant with 2 years girl and she is refugee from Gori and she is OSETHIAN!!!Why I am helping her before she gove back home after Russian ocupation? I want to answer on this questions.

[SiD]

Eka first of all i was talking about history in response of Lor claims that we only conquered during our history.(it was in another topic)

.".IF we given up you would speak German now!”- I don’t think so

It is undesputable.
Fall of USSR could give nazi not only moral boost. Stalin has already shown that turning some part of population into the slaves could turn agricultural state into industrial state, do you think nazi could not use population to boost thier military production? with Soviet resources they would become almost invincible in Europe, following thier succeses in rocketry (after war US and USSR were using german scintists) they could defeat England. And so on.
Enyway this topic is NOT about ww2 or about USSR or history.
I was arguing about chechnya becouse some georgians are trying to show how bad Russia is using chechen wars as examples. If they think Georgia is right in S Osetia and Abkchazia Russia is right too.
I think territorial integrity must be respected, so just taking something from Georgia would not be right , i personaly think that S Osetia and Abkchazia must recieve HUGE outonomia and Russia must garantie thier security.

[Eka]

Sid
We are offering VERY< VERY broad aothonomy, So we came to same conclusionat this point as I understand. ( I can try to put link here about what kind og authonomy they are talking,but because of ciber-attack of Russian huckers on Georgian internet space it is a little bit problematic. As i remamber it is something like CAtaloninas have in Spain)
And when they will receive this autonomy ( I am sure it will happen - all osethians are waiting this), when we can economiclay support them well as in anotehr parts of Georgia already thing became better and better it will be starnge Russian " guarding " this autonomy. International peacekippers and then Gerogian polive will do it very well.
Bu the way are you offering osethians ?
1. Indepadance.
2. Authonomy
3. Integration in Russia without 1 and 2 points
If Authonomy do you already explain then there rights? And is this authonomy like Checheninas have?
Can they learn in there own language, have theatres and broadcasting in Osethian and so on...?
Dont worry Sid about osethians .govermant already have interesting plans how to owercome the problems among Osethians and Georgians in future.

[SiD]

Sid
We are offering VERY< VERY broad aothonomy, So we came to same conclusionat this point as I understand. ( I can try to put link here about what kind og authonomy they are talking,but because of ciber-attack of Russian huckers on Georgian internet space it is a little bit problematic. As i remamber it is something like CAtaloninas have in Spain)
And when they will receive this autonomy ( I am sure it will happen - all osethians are waiting this), when we can economiclay support them well as in anotehr parts of Georgia already thing became better and better it will be starnge Russian " guarding " this autonomy. International peacekippers and then Gerogian polive will do it very well.
Bu the way are you offering osethians ?
1. Indepadance.
2. Authonomy
3. Integration in Russia without 1 and 2 points
If Authonomy do you already explain then there rights? And is this authonomy like Checheninas have?
Can they learn in there own language, have theatres and broadcasting in Osethian and so on...?
Dont worry Sid about osethians .govermant already have interesting plans how to owercome the problems among Osethians and Georgians in future.

I is good but you can understand that after recent events S Osetians and Abkchazians would need reasurance that history will not repeat itself 3 time. Russia is perfect guard of this autonomy becouse our peacekeepers they can trust. They wont just untrust thier future to some foreign people. Russia is near, helped them in time of need not only with word but with deed as well. And whole west was pro Georgian do you think they will be glad to accept them as peacekeepers? Russian peacekeepers must remain for sure.
Besides many things will depend on Georgia.
And i am no politician i cant decide. We will see what would happen wery soon i think.

[Eka]

You know Sid things are changing rapidly in this world. Yes. Abxazians and Osssetians are now on far distance from us Georgains. Bur you know there are many mexanizms to represent them what we are offering. And you know what is main thing - corrupts liders of separatists. Cociev and bagapsh are totally depended on Russian source of money and believe big money. Ordinary people are different. So after we represent them what we are offering them and corrupted persons will be jailed everything will be ok. I am very optimistic on these issues.

About peace kippers: We are no long members of SNG, Russians are side of conflict and it is very visible for the world. Time by time they will be displaced by international forces. If world will win this geopolitical straggle it will do this displacement easily. I trust more to int. Forces. In Serbs NATO forces very bombing and bombing. It was awful, than there were int. Pescekippers and this year on the elections pro-Russian candidate lost and pro-western win. What this represents?

[Andres]

Good article here

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/russo_ge ... ance_power

[Eka]

Good article here

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/russo_ge ... ance_power

Hi Anrei

Interesting article.
I went further and read some interesting things about your source. Do same its impressive.

I am glad that there ae some articles which are backing Russian position. It is normal for democratic world, but main issue is what MAJORITY is whriting about Goe-Rus conflict.

[Frederic]

Is there a neutral mass media source today? I doubt. The entire European and US television backs Georgia, in result, only Russia can defend itself.

Poor Russia. Peaceful country is in the position of defense from the whole world, only Hesbola and the beacon of democracy Mr. Lukashenko is able to understand and justify Mr. Putin's relentless actions to "defend" peace in Caucasus. Mr. Lavrov has even mentioned recently that the whole world is pupet in Saakashvili's hands who directs the desicions of Nato, EU, USA and the whole civilized world. So I would reccomend you to rely on Mr. Lukashenko and Hesbola. They are really independent, who managed to stay free from Saakashvili`s bad influence.

[Russia not agressor]

Вы че, вахуе??? Сракашвил петух, он начал войну, теперь это понятно всем цивилизованным странам, только Кандализа ваша еще не может успокоится)) А кто нибудь видел как Саакашвили грызет свои ГАЛСТУК??????????эТО нервы, dear europeans!!! please, think about it(or, firs translate it please))) forgive me for my english lang.)

[Eka]

Вы че, вахуе??? Сракашвил петух, он начал войну, теперь это понятно всем цивилизованным странам, только Кандализа ваша еще не может успокоится)) А кто нибудь видел как Саакашвили грызет свои ГАЛСТУК??????????эТО нервы, dear europeans!!! please, think about it(or, firs translate it please))) forgive me for my english lang.)

Sorry to all , I will answer in russian!

yspokoisia, tiajelo videt chto rodina iz za dvux prezidentikov okazalas v d...me, ia ponimaiy. Poterpi ...
Za rodinu ne to chto galstuk no i noski pojuiosh, v etom net zazornogo nichego...

The civilaized counties are Cuba and Beloruus and Ugo chavess country? Give another egzamples of Russian agressions supporters.

It is finall stragle for my country and we will win it.

Watch carefully.

[Lenus]

You try to show Russians as a barbarians...you askes,how it's possible today...
i asked you too, how it's possible today killing people there for that they don't like being included in teritory of Georgia?
Let's remember history? In 1920 yeas georgian army try to kill all osetian people...and georgian army was stoped only by redarmy,but a lot of osetians were dead.Today happens so as a lot of years ago...georgian army would like to get out all osetians from South Osetia, and a power that stoped genocid of a peaceful people became Russia,which most of you accuse...may be smb of you prefer osetians die and Georgia get the teritiry of South Osetia for just georgian people,but today not happend so
Why Georgia w'd like kill all osetians and abhazians?it's simple,it's going more yeas ago...all time georgian people think that the osetians and abhazians teritories are their.Al time georgian nacionalists think that osetians and abhazians people are lower, it's like a little nacizm of a little population.That's why recently Saacashvili said that influence of his government whould covered all eh-teritories of Georgia anyway.
It's not my fancy.what i've write i have heard that from the georgian wife of my friend?i don't think,that she needs lie to me.
To the end,i don't won't to touch georgian people,only georgian nacionalists,who rules Georgia today
Evryone georgian guy i have told said the saim. Besides that no one din't remembered recent miting in Georgia where gathered 300 000 people who demanded of Saacashvili`s resignation and were dispersed by georgian police...

All I can say is you ought to work on your english and even more on history.
I am sorry I cannot understand the majority of what you are writing.

[Russia not agressor]

ok, i understand, that you know russian)))...
Тогда буду по русски)
Нынче даже Франция и Германия не кричат такую чуш на Россию как наш "гарант" )) Постепенно проясняются причины конфликта... они не в Грузии не в Осетии и не в России они в США. Кандидат от респубиканцев Д. Маккейн уступает по популярности либерального Б.Обаму, который выступает за сокращение военных бюджетов и боевых действий США.... Нынче после широкой истерии "Россия агрессор" американцы должны задуматься кто же защитит их от русских ))) Конечно же республиканец МакКейн..... Это предвыборная кампания щедро сдобренная кровью грузинов и осетин... Не может и не имеет морального права страна развязавшая более 20 конфликтов за 40 лет обвинять когото в агресивности.....
так что милости прошу листайте биографию самого мирного государства )))

[Lenus]

My question was QUITE CLEAR and i warned that i do not need speculations or history lessons. If you want to use Chechen arguments you must support S Osetian and Akchazian independance too. Otherwise it is just double standarts nothing more.

SiD,

Maybe you don't need a history lesson, but here we have a problem with judgement and logic.

Are you issuing a statement, that teritorial integrity can only be achieved by ethnic cleansings?
I have only seen it twice recently - in Serbia and in Chechnia.

With regards to SO - you only have Putin's nightmares, not facts.

Where is the list of civilian casualties?? I am asking for it for fourth day, and you said it would be out in 2 days. Do you have if finally??

[Lenus]

Is there a neutral mass media source today? I doubt. The entire European and US television backs Georgia, in result, only Russia can defend itself.

Poor Russia. Peaceful country is in the position of defense from the whole world, only Hesbola and the beacon of democracy Mr. Lukashenko is able to understand and justify Mr. Putin's relentless actions to "defend" peace in Caucasus. Mr. Lavrov has even mentioned recently that the whole world is pupet in Saakashvili's hands who directs the desicions of Nato, EU, USA and the whole civilized world. So I would reccomend you to rely on Mr. Lukashenko and Hesbola. They are really independent, who managed to stay free from Saakashvili`s bad influence.

You have forgotten about hamaz. They also support Putin's decision.

I saw Litvinenko's film yesterday.

has anyone here seen it?

[Eka]

ok, i understand, that you know russian)))...
Тогда буду по русски)
Нынче даже Франция и Германия не кричат такую чуш на Россию как наш "гарант" )) Постепенно проясняются причины конфликта... они не в Грузии не в Осетии и не в России они в США. Кандидат от респубиканцев Д. Маккейн уступает по популярности либерального Б.Обаму, который выступает за сокращение военных бюджетов и боевых действий США.... Нынче после широкой истерии "Россия агрессор" американцы должны задуматься кто же защитит их от русских ))) Конечно же республиканец МакКейн..... Это предвыборная кампания щедро сдобренная кровью грузинов и осетин... Не может и не имеет морального права страна развязавшая более 20 конфликтов за 40 лет обвинять когото в агресивности.....
так что милости прошу листайте биографию самого мирного государства )))

Wait and watch,
It doesnot matter to us who will be president in US. how us behaves depends on it national interests, which are not shifting with elections they are quite constant.

Now about for example about France:

Yestarday in Brussels head of FO of France answering queistion of jouranlists on brifing mentioned: we, france stopped agression toward Georgia , we stopped attempt of Tbilisi bombing ( 11 august). So, posheveli mozgami, and you will understand that official position of france is quite strict. NOw German - Merkel. who was against Georgias NAto membership was very clear in this topic in Tbilisi ( " If Georgia whants - she will be NATO member").

Ne nado tak grubit, itak licom v griaz uje udarilis.Pochitaete vashix klasikov - mojet uspokoetes.

What is outcome for Russia:1. Everyone undestands that its dangerous country
2. They can not to follow there words ( prezidents)
3.They are agressors
4.They are corrupted too much for 21 century and so on ...
What will happen ( hipothethically)
Russia will be izolated util it behaves " better".
For egzample EU and USA will be more carefull with Russian citizens vizas and be more stricti in giving them permission to travel freely and so on...

[Eka]

Is there a neutral mass media source today? I doubt. The entire European and US television backs Georgia, in result, only Russia can defend itself.

Poor Russia. Peaceful country is in the position of defense from the whole world, only Hesbola and the beacon of democracy Mr. Lukashenko is able to understand and justify Mr. Putin's relentless actions to "defend" peace in Caucasus. Mr. Lavrov has even mentioned recently that the whole world is pupet in Saakashvili's hands who directs the desicions of Nato, EU, USA and the whole civilized world. So I would reccomend you to rely on Mr. Lukashenko and Hesbola. They are really independent, who managed to stay free from Saakashvili`s bad influence.

You have forgotten about hamaz. They also support Putin's decision.

I saw Litvinenko's film yesterday.

has anyone here seen it?

Yes I have seen it!
and what from this? Russians does not know nothing about there govermant.

YOu remeber Politkovskais said: this morning "NOvaia gazeta" with information about Putin and his contacts with Nord - ost Tragedy will came out and nobody will be shocked?

[Russia not agressor]

хахаха))) Мы ударились лицом в грязь?????? Да ты что, как раз наоборот...
Лады, слушай тогда вот что...
)) Грузию напихали НАТОВским оружием... они оставили когда бежали боевой техники и вооружений на 3 миллиарда долларов 6))) откуда у Грузии такие деньги?
ситуация следующая Грузию несколько лет накачивали оружием... Я приводил примеры.... в 2008 году Военный Бюджет Грузии составил более 900 млн. долларов. России более 20 млрд. долларов.... США более 600 млрд. Украны 2 млрд.
.... Но когда США поняли, что грузины не успели взять Осетию до того как вмешалась Россия а в итоге просто бегут...ограничилась "Резкими заявлениями" на которые Россия плевать хотела.... вот и получилось... сначала пихали в спинку когда в драку нужно было лезть, а когда пришло время вступится просто .умыли руки....
И вообще я за МИР!!! Нам не нужна ЭТА война!!! Просто в Осетии 90% с русским гражданством, что бы ты сделал на месте Медведева? Просто смотрел бы на смерть??? И как ты прокоментируешь мне слова Райз, что типо почему это Сибирь должна принадлежать только России??? И давай без оскорблений, у каждого своя точка зрения, мы же цивилизованные люди)))))))) respect