European Union Forums

[John]

I recommend watching this movie!!! The most interesting documentary I watched this year
Zeitgeist: Addendum
Is it all true? So many global and hot issues are talked about...
Is their version of the future possible at all?

[Madwolf]

Very interesting movie!!! But many things are not clear...
How does monetary system produce scarcity? It is based on scarcity but how does it produce scarcity...
Especially i don't understand the example with electronics becoming obsolete after 3 months. Does the movie suggest that electronic devices - computers do not evolve gradually - that it is technically possible to make a very high jump and stop there till the next jump?

[Ivan]

What's the difference between project Venus and communism?

Here is the definition of communism from Wikipedia:
Communism is a socioeconomic structure and political ideology that promotes the establishment of an egalitarian, classless, stateless society based on common ownership and control of the means of production and property in general. Karl Marx posited that communism would be the final stage in human society, following a socialist stage, which would be achieved through a proletarian revolution. "Pure communism" in the Marxian sense refers to a classless, stateless and oppression-free society where decisions on what to produce and what policies to pursue are made democratically, allowing every member of society to participate in the decision-making process in both the political and economic spheres of life.

[Admin]

Ivan here is more detailed movie about Venus project it is different from Communism.

[Tiras]

It's a propaganda movie. I would say brainwashing propaganda.
In a documentary the viewer should be able to choose his point of view and in this movie there are no choices.
The zeitgeist movie offers no choices and the Venus project society will do the same - it will offer no choices.
There will be only one type of product because it is the best, the most ecological, and any varieties will be difficult to recycle, plus the production of this product will be decided by a machine. Humans will become with time dependent on this machine and will forget how to survive alone, how to do things with their own hands.
So the humanity will become weak and easy to conquer.

Today you can see a huge variety of products in shops and supermarkets. It is this way because of competition. Today for a company to survive it has to invent something new, something interesting, something wanted.
In present competition makes every individual stronger and the tougher is competition the stronger is the individual which increases the chances of humanity survival. Competition is present in any more or less interesting game.
Competition = interesting life. Abundance = boring life.
Offering an abundance of everything to people is the same as giving a ball to each player in a football game - it's just removing the sense out of life, the same as activating a cheat in a computer game - the game becomes BORING.

[Brad69]

I think that the world without money isn't going to be a better world.
If there will be no private production sector who will decide what to be produced and what not to produce?
A computer program? At the moment we decide it with our money!!! I don't want some machine to decide what is good for me.

[John]

I think that the world without money isn't going to be a better world.
If there will be no private production sector who will decide what to be produced and what not to produce?
A computer program? At the moment we decide it with our money!!! I don't want some machine to decide what is good for me.

Yes you are correct we are making decisions with our money. But this decision is heavily influenced by media, advertising and marketing. The richer is the corporation the more influence it has on your decision to buy their products. Today more people pay for the exterior packaging of a product rather than for the quality of contents.

You can see examples of the money free society in the development of Open Source software, where software is free of charge and the developers do not get paid. The point is that it works, some of the OS software being better than its commercial counterpart.

The benefits of a money free society would be the production and services made for people and not for money. Imagine teachers that are there because they love to teach and are best at doing it. Imagine scientists working on projects without deadlines where they can consider and thoroughly test every aspect of production including environment, recycling, usability, health etc designing products that are best from all points of view not only from economic perspective.

The present reality is that too many people spend most of their time doing monotonous and boring jobs. And only a few people have time to think about the problems of our society and how they can be solved.

[Terry]

The benefits of a money free society would be the production and services made for people and not for money. Imagine teachers that are there because they love to teach and are best at doing it. Imagine scientists working on projects without deadlines where they can consider and thoroughly test every aspect of production including environment, recycling, usability, health etc designing products that are best from all points of view not only from economic perspective.

The human's nature is to be greedy and fight for resources. Now, the world you are talking about is a fantastic world, as there will be nothing to live for. Who in the world would agree to work not for money but for the society. People can't just like doing something, they want reward from that, physical reward equal to the work they've made.

[Steven]

The benefits of a money free society would be the production and services made for people and not for money. Imagine teachers that are there because they love to teach and are best at doing it. Imagine scientists working on projects without deadlines where they can consider and thoroughly test every aspect of production including environment, recycling, usability, health etc designing products that are best from all points of view not only from economic perspective.

The human's nature is to be greedy and fight for resources. Now, the world you are talking about is a fantastic world, as there will be nothing to live for. Who in the world would agree to work not for money but for the society. People can't just like doing something, they want reward from that, physical reward equal to the work they've made.

Terry, not everything in this world is based on physical reward. Think about a feeling called "love", which implies respect, diligence etc. This is the world we have to tend to...

[solzhenitsyn08]

ZEITGEIST COMMANDS US TWO IMMEDIATE, GOOD, AND HOLLY DEEDS:
1-NATO AND RUSSIA NEED MUST EMBRACE EACH OTHER,
2-RUSSIAN ARMY OUGHT TO BE A PART OF NATO!

[solzhenitsyn08]

PROF. MES-SENIOR SOLZHENITSYN08 (see Google)
(BLESS THE HOLLY MISSION FROM ALEXANDER S. TO M. E. SURAT)
TURNED INTO AN INTERNATIONAL FIGURE
AND NOW TALKS TO THE WORLD’S INTELLECTUALS
American Liberty Radio
Solzhenitsyn08

MESSRS,

THE SECOND SOVIET-TURKEY VULTURE’S RED ARMY IS NOW ONLY A FUNNY OBJECT ON THE STAGE OF MODERN HISTORY FROM THE POINT OF ZEITGEIST.
THE REDS ARE IN PANIC AND SEEK FOR TAKING A REFUGE UNDER THE SHADOW OF THEIR SWORN ENEMIES I.E. TURKISH AND KURDISH PRO-WEST MUSLIMS’ MOSQUES.

READ AND LAUGH:
THE SCRIBBLED LETTERS OF RED GENERALS BETWEEN THE MINARETS ARE SAYING THAT THE MUSLIMS LIKE VERY MUCH THE RED AND KEMALIST ARMY. HAHA! HAHA! HAAAA!


• 6 Ekim İstanbul’un düşman işgalinden kurtuluşu nedeniyle Eminönü’ndeki Yeni Cami’ye “Milli birlik esastır”, Sultanahmet’e “Ordumuza şükran borçluyuz”, Süleymaniye’ye “Ne mutlu Türküm diyene”, Üsküdar Yeni Cami’ye “Kurtuluşun kutlu olsun”, Eyüp Sultan’a “Önce vatan” mahyaları asılmış.
Ey Müslümanlar!
Ey Cuma Namazı’nı Sultanahmet Camii’nde kılacak Müslümanlar!

MANİFESTOM
YILDIRAY OĞUR FROM THE TARAF GAZETTE SAYS THAT THE MUSLIMS WOULDN’T LIKE TO PRAY UNDER BOOTS OF REDS!


LET ME PLEASE TO PRESENT MY DEEP RESPECTS TO ALL WESTERNERS, AND SEMITIC PEOPLE-MY ARAB AND JEWISH BRETHREN, RELATIVES, AND FRIENDS!
YOURS HUMBLY/SOLZHI

[Lear]

It's a propaganda movie. I would say brainwashing propaganda.

I agree - completely brainwashing propaganda. There are no easy and enjoyable solutions, only hard ways of evolution. And we cannot predict the outcome - to many variables.

But I guess, capitalism is going to meet a bitter end, someday. Terry wrote: "The human's nature is to be greedy and fight for resources" - I think not exactly - only in a world (culture) of scarcity and competition, it is true only to a certain level. Becouse we have made this civilization and we have done it not only becouse we've competed, fought with every human we've seen, but also becouse we have cooperated. Pure capitalism leaves emotional deserts and industrial wastelands. So people kill each other, so people commit suicides, so people are treated like renewable resource, so we need a global discussions about preserving nature... Maybe You are right, this is our way, the way of humanity, though I don't feel it is MY WAY.
But Tiras - I'm not shure whether Abundance = boring life.I think abundance is strongly needed to open our eyes to different goals and new opportunites. Look, most of our life's time we try to survive. What a wasted potential! In world of abudance we could devote our lifes to higher things: art, culture, science, philosofy, being a good husband or wife, mather or father, lover or volunteer...