European Union Forums

[manro1]

VYACHESLAV BUNKOV, ANALYST AT ATON BROKERAGE

"The signing of the deal does not remove all the problems surrounding the price of gas for Ukraine and transit fees. I think the conflict will be a protracted one, but Europe is relatively safe now."
I think Ukraine is at loss. this conflict has hurt and will keep on hurting Ukraine. But If you think ukranians didn't like us before the will freaking love us now. Unfreaking beliveble we used to be two brother nations. Thank you Gorbachev,go to hell.

[manro1]

:) Hello, I'm a Romanian student. Yesterday night was very cold in my house because gas pressure was very low and the outside temperature was about -20 degrees Celsius. Romania receives less 30% gas from Russians. Why? Because Ukrainians steals gas paid by Europeans because they didn't agree with Russians. Do you consider this state act as a terrorist state? Who is actually Ukraine and what is the deal with European Union?

Is Romania a gypsi state? Here some basicks to the gas conflict.
PRICE CORRELATION - RUSSIAN GAS & WORDL MARKET OIL PRICES

1996 - OIL$ 17 - GAS $ 90
1999- OIL $ 10 - GAS $ 60
2000 - OIL$ 26 - GAS $ 75
2001 - OIL$ 30 - GAS $ 130
2002 - OIL$ 19 - GAS $ 100
2003 - OIL$ 25 - GAS $ 110
2004 - OIL$ 30 - GAS $ 125
2005 - OIL$ 50 - GAS $ 160
2006 - OIL$ 80 - GAS $ 200
2008 - OIL$ 100 - GAS $ 300
2009 - WORLD OIL $40-50 - RUSSIAN GAS 450 ????!!!! for Ukraine while Bulgaria and belorusia pay something like 160

[Max]

All I can say guys these problems are politically motivated. I’d like you to read British observers who explain why Gazprom is only political weapon in the hands of current regime.

I don’t think it’s collision between Ukrainian and Russian nations as it is given by Russian zombie box. But this is very obvious conflict between Putin’s regime and Ukrainian democracy.

Is Ukrainian democracy perfect? Is any other democracy perfect? Definitely not.

But the thing is we elect our rulers, we have political rights, we have opposition, and we have independent media. When Russian will have this everything the conflict will be exhausted. Or Russia will turn to standard democracy or Ukraine will turn to back to typical post-soviet dictatorship as Russia or Belarus.

The irony is Russia was democracy previously and Ukraine was dictatorship previously too. So we know the stuff, guys, and we can compare.

We can’t go back either we have gas or not. Liberty and gas are incomparable values. The best Russian can do is to kick off the own dictators and begin the new people’s civilization again. There is no honor to be full up slave whose existence depends on bunch of daddies so finally you ought to grow up.

[Anti-MAx wellhouse]

Max you can hit your head as much as you want at the wall of Truth, as you can't break it!

All happened as it has to :

Putin pushed and finally Monitors are awake to control the gas transit and the thieves !

Who has won?

Exactly Putin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for the well-being of Russia

that's the way the Russian government works :

When problem occurs , it solves it as soon as possible . not like the corrupted Ukrainian one does by sabotage!

yUschenko Take some classes from Putin how to run a country!!!!!!!!!!!

[sOMEBODY]

2.Gas transit to Europe was paid so do not even touch it - simple, too!
(For example, somebody pays a ticket through the transit country (Ukraine) with luggage by train so this transit passenger shall be ready to loose 10-15-25% of the luggage, or not?)

dear friend, dont confuse luggage with Gas! two completely different things!
using gas for the motors to pump gas has been proven to be practical and economical, also it is in the contract russian Gasprom pays Ukraine in cash and also in gas that is used to pump it. Russia called the contract off, and now all of a sudden it is illegal to use mainstream gas to pump gas... the system was designed to work excactly like this.
and btw, Ukraine Paid all its debts already.

[sOMEBODY]

v

Ukraine was first ..Who is next?

actually Georgia was first ...

GUYS I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU. Georgia, Ukraine, ... and and everyone's afraid of doing something about it... see, here the rule "can't beat them, join them" doesnt really work.

[Father]

The news that Ukraine has paid their gas debt are not proved yet. There is still a dispute on the amount of that debt! They said that they paid, but it is still just their words! I can't trust Ukrainians!!!!!!!!!!

[Yushenko the King]

I am Yushenko!!! Hey!


The more I do anything to delay the gas transit from My dearest country, the more you love me ))) ha ha ha
I have to enrich my pocket by re-selling russian gas to EU and own people at the price which twice higher that russia sell me.

Aha see where we, orange sisters and brothers get money for funds: 1) from US budget, 2) Re-selling gas, 3) EU Aid

Love tender love me sweet little little european friedz

[Guest]

Putin is so strong he can beat an ungle immoral uktainian president's face if he meets him occasionally! He is well trained and can break Yushchenko's neck for behaving lake a prostitute towards Russia! Georgian leader is already informed he'll be hang by testicles. Yushchenko is next

[Max]

Exactly Putin for the well-being of Russia

This is must be pretty silly wellhouse. The Putin got billions fooling silly boys like that. While puppies belive he works for beggary he earns billions in numerous massive corruption schemes. Rusukrenego was directly controlled by Putin and all incomes of Russian side got to his deep eager pockets.

This is just another explanation. Lillyputin lost one of his secret business. Now his fidel well paid boys cry on forums.

[Truth]

Rusukrenego is created by request of Ukraine as a part of transit agreement. The 50 per cent own by Gazprom and 50% by Yushenko and Temoshenko.

Russia does not need Rusukrenego as a mediator, it is Ukraine who needs it!

Ukrainian government makes good money for their private pockets!

[Max]

At the moment Russian company Gazprom admitted the cut-off was made in Russia. Euro commission supports this and urges to drive appeal exactly to Gazprom. In spite of problems with transporter the seller had no right to halt supply to consumers.

During the conflict Ukraine took away on so called “technological” gas for compressors. A the moment transit of Russian gas via our territory is illegal but it is executed due to EU obligation - Ukraine signed Energy Charter of Europe.

Abused EU customers of Gazprom have to drive appeals exactly there, accordingly to decision of Euro commission.

Is Gazprom a terrorist company? Definitely yes.

[Max]

Rosukrenergo is created on demand of Russian side in 2006. The 50% belongs to Gazprom, 5% belongs to FSB officer Chuichenko who is advisory of Putin and 45% belongs to Dmitry Firtash.

[peter pan]

PETER LAVELLE'S BLOG
January 13, 2009, 0:56

Gas War – Winners and Losers

Just a short comment – this thing is far from over. Natural gas supplies from Russia to Europe should resume on January 13. But there is still no agreement on how much Ukraine should pay Russia’s Gazprom for gas in 2009. Expect more trouble. The last thing Kiev wants to really talk about is “world market prices.”

Who won and lost during this ridiculous exercise? As far as I am concerned, this is easy to discern. Those of us following events knew that Ukraine would probably pull a fast one at the last moment.

Kiev has tired the world over its “defense against the Russian bear.” The smart money understood all along that the “orange” regime is corrupt and playing upon Western prejudices against Russia.

Overall, Ukraine is the biggest loser. It refuses to grow-up and get with the program understanding current energy realities. Kiev steals cheap Russian gas and then re-sells it to Europe for a huge markup. Those days are coming to an end. And now the EU is watching. I don’t know how many, but the “gas princes” and “gas princess” of Ukraine have seen the end of almost a twenty-year escapade of theft. Billions of dollars were stolen – and virtually not a single person ever held accountable. Russia knew about this all along – now the EU is waking up to why this is a cold reality for some of its eastern European members.

At this point, the EU is a marginal net winner in all of this. It wanted to continue to bury its head in the sand for the sake of Ukraine’s so-called “Western orientation.” Brussels has learned the hard way that Ukraine is on the edge of being a failed state on its borders. Kiev has the power to literally freeze the EU in winter. This was demonstrated over the last week. Russia certainly can no longer be said to be doing the same.

Gazprom has lost tens of billions of dollars of sales to Ukraine through all of this. Ukraine is now on notice. Pay up and pay on time just like everyone else.

How has Russia come out of this? On the one hand, its market logic has shown to be correct. No one can get a free ride and everyone must pay their own way. But Russia’s Gazprom remains challenged when it comes to media relations. Gazprom is a company in the right through all of this. Why can’t it explain this to Western media in a coherent and convincing way? When this changes, we won’t go through this comedy of errors again.

Stay tuned – more to come…

[Anti-Max]

Max said: Rosukrenergo is created on demand of Russian side in 2006. The 50% belongs to Gazprom, 5% belongs to FSB officer Chuichenko who is advisory of Putin and 45% belongs to Dmitry Firtash.



Lies lies lies

50 % possessed By Temoshenko's people

[Max]

How has Russia come out of this? On the one hand, its market logic has shown to be correct.

One of Gerhard Shroeder employees... So why Euro commission urges to drive appeal about gas halt exactly to Gazprom?

The experts which work now in Ukraine and Russia admit gas can't be cut in Ukraine technically. The seller just avoided execution of obligations.

And btw real problem is there is no gas in Russia for export at all. Gazprom should simply declare the dafault and just.

[Max]

Lies lies lies

Proofs, proofs, proofs?

The information about Rosukrenergo is availabe on Gazprom website.

Btw i know FSB pays big money for some boys to work out on forums and blogs.

[peter pan]

Dear Max dream the only you can do today

there is no gas in your illness dreams

and for Ukraine exactly 4ever

[Max]

there is no gas in your illness dreams

Uhhm real Peter Pan would write "ill dreams".

The main Gazprom fields are exhausted, Yamal doesn’t give enough and never will, they only buy Turkmen gas and re-export it. They simply lack own output. Gazporm now makes only speculations.

Official lack of gas in Russia is 3%, unofficial 30%. So they try to reduce the export.

Say D-E-F-A-U-L-T

[peter pan]

max, if your Ukraine doesn't have money, then that's the case. stop blaming anybody, look at yourself. Nobody cares if Ukraine is poor.

Your country is at collapse, Tatars are there to help! Ha ha

[Max]

Live your logic to Bryton Beach. You have nothing to sell.

[Gas for People]

that bloody bastards, Bendera, men, stealing gas! they are criminals! Western ukraine is full of thieves and Nazis, which hate Romania!

Eastern Ukraine is full of good and kind people. God help them to stay against nationalists from Western part of Ukraine!

[peter pan]

Georgia, Ukraine, Baltic States, Poland are political prostitutes rather than democracies. When you pay them they love you. When you pay them more they starting to shit on your Neighbours.


Anecdote:
Saakashvili stays on bridge and sees the piece of shit passing by in the river waters.
Shit says: Hello my colleague!
What kind of colleague am i for you ? , Saaki shvilli replies
Shit added: We're both are from the internal organs of the United States

[Telegrapher UK]

Ukraine blocks gas after Russia turns taps on

A spokesman for Ukraine's state gas company Naftogaz said that it had blocked the transit of gas to Europe after it was turned back on because of "unacceptable transit conditions" imposed by the Russian energy giant Gazprom.
European Union monitors confirmed that "little or no" Russian gas was flowing to Europe despite the resumption of deliveries by Gazprom a week after it turned off the supply in a dispute over prices.
Gazprom, which is controlled by allies of the Russian prime minister Vladimir Putin, accused the US of orchestrating Ukraine's actions. "We believed yesterday that the door for Russian gas was open but again it's been blocked by the Ukrainians," said Alexander Medvedev, the deputy CEO of Gazprom, who also claimed that Kiev and Washington had signed an agreement to the detriment of Russia.

how long Ukraine are allowed to sabotage the gas transit?

[SiD]

I think it is another time wenn bulling Russia and than running crying to mother Europe havent helped local would be democracies. I think someone should learn a lesson.