Demonstrations In Moldova

Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby Admin » 07 Apr 2009, 18:33

Demonstrators in Moldova have attacked the country's parliament in protest at the victory of the governing Communist Party in Sunday's general election.

Witnesses allege crowds poured into the building through smashed ground-floor windows and shortly after hurled furniture out and set it alight.

Police said a woman died from carbon monoxide poisoning after inhaling fumes in a blaze, state television reported.

President Vladimir Voronin says it is necessary to quit to the "destabilisation".

"Enchanting the results of the election is no more than a pretext," Interfax news agency quoted Mr Voronin as telling a cabinet meeting.

EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana has urged all sides in the former Soviet state to refrain from violence. Russia has as well voiced its concern.




Alexandru Oleinic, an opposition MP, told Reuters that the leaders of the three main opposition parties were now holding talks with the president and Prime Minister Zinaida Greceanii.

He gave no details of what the talks would entail.

Interfax said that Mr Voronin would compose an address to the nation on Tuesday evening.
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby Andrewz » 08 Apr 2009, 02:19

Indeed, what is happening here is something awful. I've never seen anything like that, not even on TV shows. I've been at those demonstrations just to protest against the communist party. The party was elected by the elder generation which see no prospects in democracy. But the most of the youth doesn't want anymore to be ruled by a party that collaterally controls every business in our country. This evening, the Parliament was in fire. Demonstrators say they will continue their strikes, unless the elections are held repeatedly.
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby Big_Becka » 08 Apr 2009, 10:09

Andrewz wrote:Indeed, what is happening here is something awful. I've never seen anything like that, not even on TV shows. I've been at those demonstrations just to protest against the communist party.

:oO :super
I was shocked to hear about this! I hope everything works out ;)

Andrewz wrote:The party was elected by the elder generation which see no prospects in democracy. But the most of the youth doesn't want anymore to be ruled by a party that collaterally controls every business in our country.

This highlights a problem with democratic election (as we know it): not everyone can have what they want. You can only vote based on what you know (which is limited by your education and environment) and what you see in the media (which is often controlled and biased). So, what the majority of people want (or think they want) is not always what is best for society.
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby tricker » 09 Apr 2009, 00:25

Good luck to you in replacing the communist leadership! There were so many channels speaking today about Moldova. I heard that Moldova worsened maximally diplomatic relations with Romania and the ambassador was declared persona non-grata. That is because president Voronin accused Romania of interfering Moldova's internal affairs. Over two hundred people were arrested. The demonstration continued today as well, but the opposition called the crowd for peaceful protests.
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby kalasnikov » 09 Apr 2009, 07:28

How can the EU to allow the existence of an enclave ruled by communist mobs to its border? Moldova is geographically closer to Brussels than Georgia and Ukraine ... :nonnon
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby Andrewz » 10 Apr 2009, 00:22

kalasnikov wrote:How can the EU to allow the existence of an enclave ruled by communist mobs to its border? Moldova is geographically closer to Brussels than Georgia and Ukraine ... :nonnon


what can I tell you Kalasnikov... The point is that our communists pretend to be actually democrats. Their main policy is European integration. This is what they tell the West and the entire world. But, only we, the locals, know what they really do. Our president and his son are the richest people in the country. They have stolen so many things that it's even enough to point the finger to a restaurant and it's 90% possible to be belonging to them. The Ministry of Internal Affairs, police, the Information and Security Service (similar to CIA in US) are totally controlled by the rulling party. There is no real separation of those thre state powers - legislative, executive and judicial
Last edited by Andrewz on 10 Apr 2009, 21:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby Guest » 10 Apr 2009, 06:17

...So European and American politicians are suckers if they can be so easily fooled by the dictator Voronin, ex Militia General. Unfortunately, Romanian politicians who know better the situation from Moldova should follow the same European policy sucks.Silence please! I'm sorry for young Moldovans arrested and tortured by security special forces who deserve a better future. :ange

And of course for those who do not know history, Moldova belongs to Europe (as former Romanian province annexed by Stalin in the Soviet empire). :quoi
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby Big_Becka » 10 Apr 2009, 10:02

Europe Forum Guest wrote:...So European and American politicians are suckers if they can be so easily fooled by the dictator Voronin, ex Militia General.

Some cynics would say that European and American politicians might prefer a dictatorship to an unstable country on its borders... Think how minimal opposition to Putin's Russia in in the west has been: the stability of the Eastern bloc (both economic and political) is more valuable than high ideals to most politicians. Conspiracy theorists will claim that western secret services have trained and funded many dictatorships over the years, including the Taliban, and Saddam Hussein's Iraq. ;-)

You may be interested to know that this situation in Moldova has not been reported on the UK evening news or my internet home page yet! (At least, I have been looking for reports and have not seen any). If I did not read this forum, I would not know what is happening :nonnon

The point is that our communists pretend to be actually democrats. Their main policy is European integration. This is what they tell the West and the entire world.
Still, Moldova is not alowed in the EU because of it's human rights record. So, if this Voronin truly wants integration, he will have to do better!
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby Guest » 10 Apr 2009, 10:20

Let me return to the beginning.
Andrewz wrote:The party was elected by the elder generation .... But the most of the youth doesn't want anymore to be ruled by a party that collaterally controls every business in our count

So what? Was it a conflict of generations????
Is it true that elections were recognized as legal by outside observers? If only it's true, elder generation has right to vote, hasn't it?
And another point that shock me. Was it true that some young people were crying ' we are Romanians'?
If it was true, it's amazing. How people could reject their own country so easily?
Is it the crisis to blame?
Only questions, nothing more.
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby Andrewz » 10 Apr 2009, 21:53

And of course for those who do not know history, Moldova belongs to Europe


Must disagree because of two reasons: Moldova was bigger than the Romanian Country when they united in 1918, so I don't understand why the country was called Romania and not Moldova? Well that's not very important. What is really important is that Moldovans are very different from Romanians because of the history circumstances (to Romania then to Russia then again Romania and again Russia), so I don't we think we have common values. I want Moldova to be independent and sovereign.

Still, Moldova is not alowed in the EU because of it's human rights record. So, if this Voronin truly wants integration, he will have to do better!


But that's the point. Voronin doesn't want integration. He tells this to people for making them believe we're going to be a European state. He realizes that a union with Europe will affect his influence in the country and he will not anymore be able to control everything. He is two-faced.


s it true that elections were recognized as legal by outside observers? If only it's true, elder generation has right to vote, hasn't it?
And another point that shock me. Was it true that some young people were crying ' we are Romanians'?
If it was true, it's amazing. How people could reject their own country so easily?
Is it the crisis to blame?


Yes, the elections were recognized as legal by international observers. BUT, they supervised elections only apparently and made sure that no rules are infringed during the process. They actually don't know that elections was a fraud. It is supposed that communists included in voting lists lots of deceased people. Actually it's not only supposed, a few dozens of cases were already revealed, but now the opposition requested for a vote recount and they want to prove that the number of "dead people who voted communists" was much much higher, reaching several thousands of people, which is inadmissible.

Yes, it's true that many young people were crying for a union with Romanian. I don't support them, and many don't. There were many provocators among the crowd, which were well-paid by somebody to initiate disorder and manipulate crowds. There are many people who might be interested in disorders.
There is a version that communists themselves organized the disorder. For example, take a look at this picture. The guy that climbed the Parliament's roof and installed the EU flag was accompanied by a policeman. Oops... looks like the policeman didn't expected cameras would catch him. This means that something is not clear here. Nobody could climb the Parliament's roof because you need a password there for elevator. The stairs were locked. This means that this guy was infiltrated there to provoke scandal and disaster. He was one of the most active participants who manipulated crowds.
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby AriRusila » 11 Apr 2009, 09:49

After Orange (Ukraine), Rose (Georgia) and Tulip (Kyrgyzstan) revolutions the first try of next generation demonstration took place in Moldova after last weekends parliamentary elections. Known now as “Twitter Revolution” the protest was self-organized by two youth movements – Hyde Park and ThinkMoldova – using their generation’s tools of social messaging network to gather 10,000-15,000 demonstrators on streets in Moldova’s capital Chisinau, ransacking presidential palace and parliament building.

Background

As many as 50 per cent of Moldovan eligible voters cast their ballots for the Party of Communists (PCRM). Thus, the ruling party won a landslide victory leaving the other three political parties that made it to parliament far behind. Three other parties managed to pass the 6 per cent threshold required to enter the legislature. All three are in favour of closer ties with the European Union, free-market policies and pursuing NATO membership. The Communists (PCRM) are pro-EU, anti-NATO and less market-friendly.

Election observers from EU and OSCE accepted the voting as fair, though they expressed some concern about interference from the authorities (OSCEreport http://www.osce.org/documents/odihr/2009/04/37142_en.pdf ). But the results were a deep disappointment in the capital. Expectation of change was in the air before voting, but that did not happen.

More about elections in my earlier post “Election in Moldova - NATO perspective blocked” - address http://arirusila.wordpress.com/2009/04/ ... e-blocked/

Twitter demonstration

According The New York Times the protests apparently started on Monday, when organizers from two youth movements, Hyde Park and ThinkMoldova, began calling for people to gather at an event billed as “I am a not a Communist.”

Natalia Morar, one of the leaders of ThinkMoldova, described the effort on her blog as “six people, 10 minutes for brainstorming and decision-making, several hours of disseminating information through networks, Facebook, blogs, SMSs and e-mails.” She said the protests, organised under the slogan, were organised online: "All the organisation was through the internet, and 15,000 people came on to the street."

The protesters created their own searchable tag - #pman referring Chisinau’s central square - on Twitter, rallying Moldovans to join. Real time communication can be checked from http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%23pman .

Mihai Moscovici 25, who provided updates in English all day over Twitter, painted a more nuanced picture. He said the gathering on Monday night drew only several hundred people. The protesters agreed to gather the next morning and began spreading the word through Facebook and Twitter. When Internet service was shut down, Mr. Moscovici said, he issued updates with his cellphone.

Violence by accident

That demonstration turned to be violent was surprise to activists. Mr. Moscovici said the protests were never intended to turn in that direction. “The situation got beyond any expectations,” he said. “If it would have been planned in advance, they would have used Molotov cocktails or other bad stuff. Today they didn’t have any tools to fight back. The stones they got from the ground, from the pavement.”

Also Ms. Morar of ThinkMoldova distanced her organization from the violence, shifting the blame to opposition parties. ” What bothers her the most, she said, is the suggestion that she and her friends somehow contributed to the violence, which she watched on television. “Believe me, there is nothing at all enjoyable about it,” she said. (Source NYT)

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ThinkMoldova — Change Moldova! is a platform dedicated to young people. It is the place where young people directly participate in proposing new ideas and take part in the decisions important for their own future and their country.It is about giving initiative to young people and fights to offer them the possibility to affirm themselves outside of the conventional, hierarchical and parochial institutions prevalent in Moldova’s society and political system.

ThinkMoldova's mission is to create an active and productive dialogue between decision makers, experts and young people. I am sure this kind of platform can attract much more than traditional party youth organizations and example from Moldova shows its effectiveness in politics.

My conclusions

Today’s communication tools are providing new aspects into election campaigns and into politics in general. One of them is that modern technology can inspirit young voters. The second aspect is that the protest does not necessary channel via voting but through street democracy.

One can claim that both of these aspects can include undemocratic elements because majority of population is not familiar with these tools and direct democracy with violence can gain power more than fair share. On the other hand one can claim that the Establishment in such has so strong means to exercise of power that normal elections are insignificant. My position is not clear because situations in every society differ.

Use of today’s information possibilities has many ways. Th!nk About It blogging campaign is one forum to inspire youth involvement with the 2009 European Parliamentary Elections based mostly discussion and debate in internet. ThinkMoldova gives example how debate can be brought on the street level. We shall see what is the next Think, can it be EU wide and can it motivate crowds to streets or direct actions.

One problem is manipulation the media etc. which is common phenomena in political actions as well hijacking a demonstration for purpose of one interest group. In Moldova case the two organizations behind protest condemned the violence and some had opinion that opposition parties were behind these acts. Opposition parties deny this and of course it is possible that the Establishment orchestrated the hooligan part of demonstration to weaken NGOs. The truth - I don't know.

The Moldovan experiment showed that with Twitter some development has made since demonstrations in Ukraine 2004 and Belorussia 2006 which were gathered mainly with SMS. It is practical and effective but from my point of view not sufficient method for democratic revolution. For protest sure, for revolution maybe, sometime, somewhere.

More [url]ThinkMoldova [http://thinkmoldova.org[/url]
More my views in my [url]BalkanBlog[/url] http://arirusila.wordpress.com
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby User » 11 Apr 2009, 11:06

EU please HELP((( :cry :ouin :ange
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby Relatives in Italy » 11 Apr 2009, 11:33

Communism consequences www.jurnaltv.md/?mod=martor&id=462 .
Open eyes Europe!
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby Denis » 11 Apr 2009, 18:23

en. wikipedia. org/wiki/Union_of_Bessarabia_with_Romania
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby Guest » 12 Apr 2009, 08:27

From wikipedia:
'....and from 1993 Moldova started distancing itself from Romania. The constitution adopted in 1994 used the term "Moldovan language" instead of "Romanian" and changed the national anthem to Limba noastră. The 1996 attempt by Moldovan president Mircea Snegur to change the official language to "Romanian" was dismissed by the Moldovan Parliament as "promoting Romanian expansionism".'
They refused to use their own lanluage????
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby safta romanul » 13 Apr 2009, 17:34

Andrews said: "What is really important is that Moldovans are very different from Romanians because of the history circumstances (to Romania then to Russia then again Romania and again Russia), so I don't we think we have common values. I want Moldova to be independent and sovereign."

LOOOOOOOOOOOL
Most of Romanians think that Moldova still is a Romanian province after many years of Rusification, but they respect the Moldova's independence. We have common language, common history (Stephen the Great...), common culture (Eminescu...), please don't say bulshit, my brother. Relax, nobody from Romania wants to steal Moldova.lol.
Moldovans are proud people, and of couse many aboriginal descendants live today in Siberia, in their place communists brought Ukrainians and Russians... :banghead

And I think Moldavia is the correct nom. in English

"Pohta ce-am pohtit: Moldova si Ardealul si Tara Romaneasca" -Michael the Brave
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby safta romanul » 13 Apr 2009, 17:43

"Moldova was bigger than the Romanian Country when they united in 1918, so I don't understand why the country was called Romania and not Moldova? "

And the correct name in Romanian language is Basarabia or Bessarabia... :slurp
We must search the ancient Moldova in Romania, Ukraina, and Moldova.Rep.
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby to safta romanul » 14 Apr 2009, 14:19

You are silly, and are badly informed by history of Moldova and Romania before to write, at first it is necessary to esteem. :livre
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby Andrewz » 16 Apr 2009, 12:30

So many things happened recently... a book wouldn't be enough to tell you everything...
One boy died because of police tortures. In turn, the police asserts that they found the guy already dead and that expertise showed he died due to posinous substance found in his blood. Yet, the police says nothing about obvious signs of beating. Hundreds of innocent young people are caught, beat and put into jail for nothing.

watch this guy with bruises on his body
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N66tcslS ... re=related

Yesterday, President Voronin ordered the police to release all arrested guys, just because there are too many probes that human rights in Moldova are not observed at all.
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby Big_Becka » 16 Apr 2009, 12:40

Amnesty International have launched an appeal. If anyone is interested in taking action, visit:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/appeals-for-a ... -treatment

Hundreds of people have been detained in Moldova after the country's authorities blamed them for the rioting that followed a peaceful demonstration on 6 April.

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According to the Moldovan Ministry of Internal Affairs, by 11 April, 129 people had been detained. Of these, 88 people had been sentenced to between two and 15 days’ administrative detention, 22 people had been fined and four people had been released. A further 86 people have been detained on suspicion of committing criminal acts.

Amnesty International is concerned that detainees are being subjected to torture and other ill-treatment. Local NGOs have testimonies from over 100 detainees, their lawyers and families, alleging many instances of torture and other cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment.

There are many reported cases of detainees not being given access to a lawyer and of trials being held in haste in police stations, often in groups, usually in the absence of lawyers.

Police are also hindering the work of the Human Rights Ombudsman's office. The Consultative Council for the Prevention of Torture, a national body that monitors places of detention, as well as the UN Human Rights Advisor to Moldova, were refused access to two police stations in the capital and were only able to visit a pre-trial detention centre after three hours of negotiation.

Detainees' stories
A group of 36 people travelling in minibuses and a car were stopped by police in masks with machine guns at 12.30am on 7 April and escorted to the Central Police Commissariat in Chisinau They were reported to have been made to stand in the courtyard against the wall with their legs and arms apart for two hours. One of them reported that he was beaten in the face with a rifle butt. They were then reported to have been beaten repeatedly with a police baton and kicked while being questioned.

After questioning, they were allegedly forced to run along a "corridor of death" of uniformed police, consisting of five or six on each side, while police beat, kicked and used batons against them. After this they were told to strip down to their underwear -- this included seven women -- and they were forced to perform squats. They were detained overnight and given administrative sentences of between two and 10 days.

Damian Hancu, a 23 year-old Moldovan studying in France, was at the demonstrations on 7 April interpreting for Swedish journalists when he was detained by police officers at 10pm on 7 April. He was reported to have been severely beaten and kicked by police officers in custody, to force him to confess to having taken part in the rioting and the destruction of the government and presidential building.

He said: "They beat us like animals. I thought they would beat us until we were dead. It is very hard when you are innocent." He was released on 9 April and was charged with an administrative offence.

A. B (21) was taken from the student hostel where he lives by unidentified men in civilian clothes who took him to Riscani police station. He was given no access to a lawyer and his parents were not allowed to visit him. When his father went to try and see him at the police station, he is reported to have been told that none of the detained had seen a lawyer "because lawyers are not allowed in this police station".

Anatol Matasaru was detained on 8 April, and was given access to his lawyer who reported that he was so badly beaten that he was breathing and speaking with difficulty. He is still in detention. Two people who had been in detention with him reported that not only was Anatol Matasaru beaten like the other detainees, but more so because he was known to the police from his previous peaceful protests.

Anatol Matasaru was reported to have been forced by the policemen who were beating him to lick their boots so that they would stop. He has been charged with a criminal offence.
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby Nathan » 16 Apr 2009, 13:22

Anatol Matasaru, this guy was cruelly beat by the police. He is known for his totally negative attitude against the current government and against the police. He also said that the police forced him to say that he was allegedly paid for taking part in demonstrations.
He once dressed as a pig and started to protest near the Prosecutor's office and was arrested and fined for that.

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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby SiD » 17 Apr 2009, 16:47

To me it all look like another colour revolution. Opposition dont want to admit any results exept thier victory and if they dont win they just move people on the streets. Hope it is not. Becouse there was rose revolution in Georgia, orange revolution in Ukrain and you can check hot topics.
I read previus posts and it is realy hard to tell who is in the right, but protesters look like a colorful bunch i quote
Andrewz wrote:Yes, it's true that many young people were crying for a union with Romanian. I don't support them, and many don't. There were many provocators among the crowd, which were well-paid by somebody to initiate disorder and manipulate crowds. There are many people who might be interested in disorders.

Isnt is more harmfull to make government go and than face strugle between all fractions that now have common enemy? If they would win now why shouldnt they continue untill they make everything thier way whanever they win elections or not?
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby Newrussian town » 17 Apr 2009, 21:48

[Moldovans are proud people, and of couse many aboriginal descendants live today in Siberia, in their place communists brought Ukrainians and Russians... :banghead
It is all about Gremlins....Sorry, Russians, they broke our equipment in the WW2 :haha Siberia is a nice place with a virgin nature and big spaces, with a lot of resourses.Why are you scare about this place? :quoi
The best political regime for the nation is a regime which was saved this nation like an entire one. (M. Montein)
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby safta romanul » 19 Apr 2009, 14:54

Newrussian town wrote:[... Siberia is a nice place with a virgin nature and big spaces, with a lot of resourses.Why are you scare about this place? :quoi


Russians can live very well in Siberia with vodka and kazaciok, but for Moldovans who live in a beautiful and sunny country with wineyards and many fruit trees, Siberia was the Soviet gulag. :evil
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Re: Demonstrations in Moldova

Postby Newrussian town » 19 Apr 2009, 18:09

[Russians can live very well in Siberia with vodka and kazaciok, but for Moldovans who live in a beautiful and sunny country with wineyards and many fruit trees, Siberia was the Soviet gulag. :evil[/quote]

You know I saw so many Moldovans works in Siberian towns, and even in my town, in Moscow, really cannot understand how they could left the proud and sunny country with wine yards and many fruit trees and.....aaa....? Really don't know with what else, for such a terrible place :lol: Did you know that every great countries had it's own "Gulag"? Americans- put into "gulag" Indians, Germans-I hope you have heard about it too, France had "gulag" in the Equatorial Africa, Spain-had its own "gulag-master" Franco, Italy-Mussolini, Great Britain- had as a colony 1/4 of the world including India. Portugal, and Russia too ect. So what? It was so long time ago; it is a real paranoia to blame modern Russians for the gulag, as well as modern Germans for the Nazi prisons. Every Empire had it's own victims, and a weak and little countries and nations, were, are, and will be suffering under the strong countries, it is a law that have existed for a millions years.
The best political regime for the nation is a regime which was saved this nation like an entire one. (M. Montein)
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