European Union Forums

[Laurentine]

Hidden beneatn robes and veils women's bodies in Saudi Arabia are undergoing a transformation. Over the past few years, cosmetic procedures have begun booming in this place where religion covers all facets of life.
Finally

[Benn]

Hidden beneatn robes and veils women's bodies in Saudi Arabia are undergoing a transformation. Over the past few years, cosmetic procedures have begun booming in this place where religion covers all facets of life.
Finally

What can I say ,the world is advancing... Finally they will have beautiful women. Maybe they will start to treat them with more respect. So now in Saudi Arabia is profitable to open beauty salons? A good business idea

[Faw_Peter]

Hidden beneatn robes and veils women's bodies in Saudi Arabia are undergoing a transformation. Over the past few years, cosmetic procedures have begun booming in this place where religion covers all facets of life.
Finally

[Terry]

Hidden beneatn robes and veils women's bodies in Saudi Arabia are undergoing a transformation. Over the past few years, cosmetic procedures have begun booming in this place where religion covers all facets of life.
Finally

is a good news for poor women .. theirs men too household them and hide in those robes from can see only their eyes

[Benn]

nice sense of humor..

[M.Helen]

I do not see anything to laugh. For the country as Saudi Arabia's progress and a step towards freedom of women. I would like to see you, as you wear clothes like theirs for whole life, and have sit just in the kitchen, because for them this is the role of women,will you laugh with such appetite? not think so...

[Big_Becka]

Finally they will have beautiful women. Maybe they will start to treat them with more respect.

Is this what men respect?! Perhaps I will get cosmetic surgery too? Or a veil? Man, I already hate going to the salon... Such a waste of time and money...

I agree with you, M.Helen. I think the guys on this site should just try being a western woman for a day. If you can spend your Saturday getting your hair cut and highlighted and your nails painted without screaming to be let out..! Ha, we should give these women large sticks to beat their husbands with! Then they will learn respect!

I think there have always been some very beautiful arabic women - you just couldn't see them

Did you know the original reason that muslim women wear a veil? A wise woman covers herself, so that men can see that she is a wise woman and not a whore.

[Laurentine]

Yes you are right dear Beka. Entire life in the Beauty salons, for men, and in conclusion everything is done as they to laugh of us ...

[M.Helen]

Better than us, women, anyone can not understand the poor Arab. Dear Beka you're right ... how much time and patience we lose in beauty salons ... but if honestly I don't regret anything . I like to be beautiful .....not for men .... for me ... Every woman is beautiful and they deserve to be spoiled by men even in question

[Peach]

Is a pleasure for me, a relaxation to go to salon. I like to look good for me in the first row. And I think all women are entitled to pleasures such as beauty salons.

[Big_Becka]

Ah, perhaps I have sympathy for Saudi women because I was raised not to be vain I cannot relax at the salon because I have too many other things to do with my time and money! I see beauty as an investment: I need to look socially acceptable in order to succeed in life. But I wish they didn't waste my whole Saturday... Perhaps I should start an express salon?

It is interesting: only 50 years ago, it was commonly accepted that vanity is a sin. Most Christian demoninations teach that vanity is a deadly sin (although you will no longer be sent to a Convent if you are a vain girl ) Today a woman will be ostracised if she doesn't shave and wax everything! And she will be openly judged on her looks in all areas of her life. Even men are increasingly under pressure to get waxed and tanned! Why have we so suddenly become obsessed with looks?

A final thought: your facial features are part of your ethnic heritage. Most races have larger noses than the ideal Aryan model. Only a tiny proportion of women are naturally blonde, slender, finely-featured Scandinavians. The beauty industry is inherently racist, because it encourages women to look more aryan. I think it is terrible that Arabic women want to have surgery on their beautiful faces! Why can't we love women the way they were born?!

[FreeThinker]

A final thought: your facial features are part of your ethnic heritage. Most races have larger noses than the ideal Aryan model. Only a tiny proportion of women are naturally blonde, slender, finely-featured Scandinavians. The beauty industry is inherently racist, because it encourages women to look more aryan. I think it is terrible that Arabic women want to have surgery on their beautiful faces!

Nobody is forcing anyone to do facial surgeries. People do them on their own.

Why can't we love women the way they were born?!

Love is big word for me. If I can replace it with the word "accept" there then I think most people do accept women (and also men) the way they are born. However, perferences do exist and they will vary from person to person. Having preferences is not discriminating.

[Big_Becka]

Nobody is forcing anyone to do facial surgeries. People do them on their own. ... However, perferences do exist and they will vary from person to person. Having preferences is not discriminating.

I disagree. Of course, no one can make us do anything. But society can put us under unreasonable pressure to make certain decisions.

Rhinoplasty is an expensive, painful and potentially dangerous operation. Do you imagine any woman would undergo this just out of preference?

Love is big word for me. If I can replace it with the word "accept" there then I think most people do accept women (and also men) the way they are born.

Let us imagine that you are an ugly girl, who does not have beauty treatments. You will be unable to get any job that involves working with customers, or any job where you represent your company: you will be told that you do not present “the right corporate image.”

You can obviously forget working in fashion or the media.

Even if you do not work in these areas, people will assume that your looks are a reflection of your personality.
- Glasses indicate that you are weak.
- Too much body hair is considered disgusting and very unfeminine.
- Curly hair indicates that you are disorganised.
- Grey hairs indicate you are an old lady! (whereas on men they are distinguished ).
- Unfashionable clothes indicate that you are lazy and unmotivated, and perhaps have a lack of self-confidence.
- Being too fat (even if you are only a little chubby) is a major problem: you cannot buy well-fitting clothes and you will be made to feel like a idiotic sloth. Some people will assume you are a nasty or selfish person. Perversely, if you are too skinny you will be treated like a little girl or a freak.
- Blondes are considered more pure and innocent than brunettes: a survey showed that a majority of men find them more child-like and in need of protecting.
- A large nose in particular is reminiscent of wicked witches in fairy stories: I am sure you have seen how people laugh at women with large noses.

Then there is the small matter of winning a boyfriend. Have you seen Mens’ magazines?! Even the most fat and ugly man imagines that he deserves a beautiful girlfriend [And now they can buy them from Russia and Thailand!!!] If his girlfriend is not beautiful, he will be ridiculed by his friends and colleagues, and his boss and family will tell him that he can do better!

And, of course, other women will have no respect for you. Many women become conscious of beauty when they are bullied by other girls at school. Surveys have shown that most women dress up for the benefit of their female peers.

We live in a competitive world. In order to maximise your chances of getting a job and/or a husband, you have to look better than your rivals. Yes you have a choice, but the alternative to being beautiful is to risk becoming a poor lonely outcast.

Do you now see the pressure that women are under?

[FreeThinker]

Nobody is forcing anyone to do facial surgeries. People do them on their own. ... However, perferences do exist and they will vary from person to person. Having preferences is not discriminating.

I disagree. Of course, no one can make us do anything. But society can put us under unreasonable pressure to make certain decisions.

Rhinoplasty is an expensive, painful and potentially dangerous operation. Do you imagine any woman would undergo this just out of preference?

Love is big word for me. If I can replace it with the word "accept" there then I think most people do accept women (and also men) the way they are born.

Let us imagine that you are an ugly girl, who does not have beauty treatments. You will be unable to get any job that involves working with customers, or any job where you represent your company: you will be told that you do not present “the right corporate image.”

You can obviously forget working in fashion or the media.

Even if you do not work in these areas, people will assume that your looks are a reflection of your personality.
- Glasses indicate that you are weak.
- Too much body hair is considered disgusting and very unfeminine.
- Curly hair indicates that you are disorganised.
- Grey hairs indicate you are an old lady! (whereas on men they are distinguished ).
- Unfashionable clothes indicate that you are lazy and unmotivated, and perhaps have a lack of self-confidence.
- Being too fat (even if you are only a little chubby) is a major problem: you cannot buy well-fitting clothes and you will be made to feel like a idiotic sloth. Some people will assume you are a nasty or selfish person. Perversely, if you are too skinny you will be treated like a little girl or a freak.
- Blondes are considered more pure and innocent than brunettes: a survey showed that a majority of men find them more child-like and in need of protecting.
- A large nose in particular is reminiscent of wicked witches in fairy stories: I am sure you have seen how people laugh at women with large noses.

Then there is the small matter of winning a boyfriend. Have you seen Mens’ magazines?! Even the most fat and ugly man imagines that he deserves a beautiful girlfriend [And now they can buy them from Russia and Thailand!!!] If his girlfriend is not beautiful, he will be ridiculed by his friends and colleagues, and his boss and family will tell him that he can do better!

And, of course, other women will have no respect for you. Many women become conscious of beauty when they are bullied by other girls at school. Surveys have shown that most women dress up for the benefit of their female peers.

We live in a competitive world. In order to maximise your chances of getting a job and/or a husband, you have to look better than your rivals. Yes you have a choice, but the alternative to being beautiful is to risk becoming a poor lonely outcast.

Do you now see the pressure that women are under?

If all what you said is true then I must say I am glad I live in India. I never heard of anyone doing Rhinoplasty here. We have girls with all the qualities you mentioned (except blondes) at my work place and nobody discriminates even a bit. I have seen girls with above qualities grow up the professional ladder like everyone else. Moreover, some are happily married and I am sure some have boyfriends too.

I somehow am not able believe UK is so bad for women. Are you imagining a worst case scenario?

[Big_Becka]

If all what you said is true then I must say I am glad I live in India. I never heard of anyone doing Rhinoplasty here.

Shilpa Shetty, the Bollywood star, has obviously had surgery on her nose.

Perhaps most women are a little more discreet than me?

It is true that I am perhaps being a little negative , but everything I say is based on personal experience, and observations of my friends. Most women do not complain about the situation, because they see it as part of being female and never question that they should alter themselves. This is what I mean about society being vain, not just a few people.

No woman dares leave her house with hairy legs or a moustache! Many women in the UK bleach their hair. Statistically, most women are on weight-loss diets (although most of them need to be!), and increasingly young women are having breast augmentations and liposuction. Women spend on average over £50 per month on make-up and beauty treatments, and it is easy to spend up to £500 per month. Girls as young as 8 can be seen wearing make-up, and there are cases of these children developing annorexia.

Obviously not all women have all possible beauty treatments, but it is commonly accepted that you will be judged on your appearance. People who make less effort will face more discrimination and negative attitudes.

It is interesting what you say - that women seem to be under less pressure in India. I love Indian clothes because they make any woman look beautiful! I wonder if there is a different attitude to beauty in India? I do wonder if the UK's obsession with beauty is related to our increased prosperity over the last 50 years? (My mother wouldn't waste money on lipstick, never mind surgery!) In which case, perhaps other countres will suffer the same fate?

[Nathan]

Obviously not all women have all possible beauty treatments, but it is commonly accepted that you will be judged on your appearance. People who make less effort will face more discrimination and negative attitudes

true ... but all the rituals for beauty can be made at home, not necessarily to throw good money on beauty salons, as well as sports like running, cycling, walking, crunches, etc.. The principal is to have desire and the rest are a thousand solutions . The problem of those who does not care are not money but it's because of laziness and because of silly words "someone will love me as I am"

[Big_Becka]

true ... but all the rituals for beauty can be made at home, not necessarily to throw good money on beauty salons, as well as sports like running, cycling, walking, crunches, etc..

Even home treatments cost a lot of money! What would you think if you saw a 20-year-old girl with dry, grey hair, no make-up and a monobrow? Even if she does plenty of exercise, you would think her ugly. Believe me, I know plenty of fit girls who get laughed at by men

Most women wear subtle make-up and correcting face creams, and use plenty of hair products - you don't even notice how much work they have put into their appearance, and they never admit to it!

The problem of those who does not care are not money but it's because of laziness and because of silly words "someone will love me as I am"

I said the problem is time and money. I also noted the fact that women must work so much harder than previous generations did.

OK, Cutting your own hair is ill-advised! So you must go to a salon who will charge you as much as they can. Dying hair, even using a home kit, takes 30-50 mins. Then applying the dye and washing it out again: takes 1.5 - 2 hours in total. Styling the hair requires equipment (hairdryer, maybe tongs or irons) and products (hairspray, mousse, serums). Every morning and evening you must cleanse, tone and moisturise your face - these products cost money. Make-up is time consuming and expensive, especially if you need to disguise certain facial features. Ever wonder why your girlfriend takes so long in the bath? Try shaving or waxing your legs, bikini line, armpits, brows, moustache, belly and feet (yes, women get hairy feet). Conditioning treatment for the hair needs to be left in for 10-15 minutes. Then you are encouraged to use exfoliating scrubs, and moisturise your whole body. A manicure takes over an hour to dry, even if you do it at home. Contact lenses need to be carefully cleaned and stored - alternatively you can buy a light and flattering pair of glasses for over £100. Then there are teeth-whitening treatments, fake tans, pedicures, clothes, ...

And you hateful men only have to spend ten minutes in the shower and have a quick haircut at the barber! Do you still think women are lazy? This is exactly the attitude that enrages me: I must spend all my time and money just looking acceptable, while men have free time to relax

[Peach]

And you hateful men only have to spend ten minutes in the shower and have a quick haircut at the barber! Do you still think women are lazy? This is exactly the attitude that enrages me: I must spend all my time and money just looking acceptable, while men have free time to relax

Are men who love's them and give more attention to the exterior even more than a woman. I know a man of this type, until does not look in the mirror 10 times, until no change clothes about 3 times, until half an hour not struggle with hair arranging doesn't leave the house.
But, if taken in general.... then you're right...

[Big_Becka]

Are men who love's them and give more attention to the exterior even more than a woman. I know a man of this type, until does not look in the mirror 10 times, until no change clothes about 3 times, until half an hour not struggle with hair arranging doesn't leave the house.
But, if taken in general.... then you're right...

Yes, this is true

Society's obsession with beauty seems to affect more men too. A theme park recently announced that men would be banned from wearing speedos and would be offered free body waxing to "prevent embarrassment" in the family swimming pool! When did it become unacceptable for men to have body hair?

Maybe I can tell men they are lazy if they don't wax themselves?

[Peach]

Maybe I can tell men they are lazy if they don't wax themselves

You can try... way I know a football player that is wax the entire body, looks pretty good and hairless men...

[FreeThinker]

So what do we do now with all these problems?
From my side, I won't ask my wife to do all that

[Riser]

From my side, I won't ask my wife to do all that

Usually a woman do not wait to be asked, she want to look good, to be the most beautiful for her man, so she do all these as a normal process

[FreeThinker]

From my side, I won't ask my wife to do all that

Usually a woman do not wait to be asked, she want to look good, to be the most beautiful for her man, so she do all these as a normal process

I would want her to feel good than look good. When I am with her I would rather want to see her smiling lips with eyes lit up than shiny lipstick and mascara (unless she wants to)

[Steven]

I would want her to feel good than look good. When I am with her I would rather want to see her smiling lips with eyes lit up than shiny lipstick and mascara (unless she wants to)

If you always tell how well it look will never complex and not be afraid to look natural ...

[Big_Becka]

It's really nice to hear all you guys saying these things

Unfortunately, it is not just a little lipstick and mascara: women buy huge amounts of rubbish in the pursuit of beauty! Once it becomes an obsession, it results in spending your life savings on orthodontics and surgery It is no longer just models, actresses and dancers who do this, but normal, intelligent women!

The problem is not just mens' expectations, but society. The whole beauty industry is... well, an industry! Years ago it was enough to be clean, fit, neat and tidy. Over time these companies have convinced people - especially women - that the adult human body is imperfect and needs improving. So body hair has become "disgusting," a natural overbite is "bad teeth," large facial features are "freakish" - you get the picture!

Also, these cosmetics companies take advantage of the fact that many women do not excel in science at school. They claim impossible benefits, e.g. Face creams that alter the structure of your DNA and actually make you younger!

So... in response to Freethinker's question: I would like to see the following policies:

1) School science lessons should explain how a natural human body looks - including the link between facial feautures and racial diversity - so that girls are not ashamed of themselves. They could also cover how to make beauty products and how these treatments work - and what plastic surgery involves! This would make science more relevant to young, beauty-conscious girls (there is currently a shortage of girls studying most of the sciences) and avoid exploitation by the beauty industry.

2) There must be tighter regulations of how these beauty products are advertised. I do this by writing to the Advertising Standards Agency in my country. I am very proud to have caused the Nivea DNAge adverts to be changed

3) I would like to see the Film and Fashion industries take more responsibility. There has already been a ban of "size zero" models on most catwalks, and a brief fashion for promoting "real women" (most of whom were still fairly vigorously groomed!) but models still have to conform to very strict criteria based on their bone structure and features. It is very rare to see a Hollywood star who hasn't had their teeth bleached and straightened, and some plastic surgery - and these stars are often role-models to girls. Intelligent women (e.g. female scientists, serious writers, etc.) are rarely celebrated in women's magazines, creating an illusion that successful women work in a subset of traditionally female roles.