European Union Forums

[RusNeko]

Somebody here thought it will be silly to open this topic, but... Excuse me, Eugene frome Belarus, but idea is brilliant!) I made this topic instead of you, sorrrrry... So, come on!)

[Nicholas]

Democracy is a form of government, where everybody has rights and these rights are respected by having a limit of them every time we one comes across other people's rights.

[independent]

What I think democracy is:
Democracy means that everyone can take part when decisions are done.
Everyone must have the same volition - and all must be equal and have same rights.
All decisions must be public - never made behind "closed doors". And there must
be joint and several liability of made decisions.

But most of all it is an utopia - because there is not a single country- and probably
will never be - in the world who is 100% democratic . People often think that
e.g. "western democracy" is the "Real Thing" - but it is far a way from real democracy.
"Western democracy" exported by US is nothing but neoliberalism - and it can
never be a real democracy because in it money gives You more votes.

[RusNeko]

United states democracy is not democracy, because its leaders dont hear national protest on war in iraq...(

[russian999]

Guys, have you came across Max Weber name? He proofed, that modern democracy came from protestant revolution. It means, that without religious content democracy is just some ordinary way of governing /

[Tamsa]

Lets begin from Anciant Greek where all the political forms of governing developed. Plato one of the greatest philosopher wrote: Bad way of governing is : Timocracy (when ambitious governs), Oligarchy (when rich governs), Tyranny (one's absolute governing) and DEMOCRACY (people governing). Plato's the best governing forms are: Aristocrastic republic and Aristocratic monarchy.
Aristotel mentions that there are three social groups: very riches, extremely poor and middles. first two he considers as a misfortune of nation, about middles _ base of nation and ideals them. that's why Aristotel denys Oligarchy and Democracy. He suggest Three forms of ideal governing: Monarchy, Aristocracy and Polity. if there is abolishment of moderation: Monarchy becomes Tyranny, Aristocracy_ Oligarchy, from Polity to Democracy. subsequently in anciant greek the word Democracy wasits direct meaning( demos- people and cratos- rule) as there were more people in low level, nobady gave them oppetunity to rule.
As we've seen world changed after so many centuries and Democracy became The best political governing Form, after so many damned formations what mankind passed trough : 1. primitive communities; 2. slave-owning; 3. feudalism; 4.Capitalism and 5. Socialism ( what's highest developed phase is_Communism). we came now in Democracy ERA, which became the synonym of FREEDOM. but still some countries and people prefer to live in Toltalitarism, Autoritarism and Slavery...
Let's try to improve the democracy in our own countries and just live with free mind.. after so much experiance what humanity have seen we can easily choose where to go and how to live, of course if today stilll existing ''IZMS'' give us that chance, if they don't we can fighet for freedom and theirfor for Democracy, which is the best progress during of Humanity.

[lashachochua]

Guys, have you came across Max Weber name? He proofed, that modern democracy came from protestant revolution. It means, that without religious content democracy is just some ordinary way of governing /

Russia, once more weber was concentrating on relation between capitalizm and religion, he has not showed contradiction between democracy and religion, yes the true democracy realised from religious tribes which left europe and went USA, but no conclusion was made that christians can build democracy only...

If you really want to feel and deeply undertand what the democracy is about I really suggest you to read Alexis de Tocqueville "Democracy in America"...

[independent]

If you really want to feel and deeply undertand what the democracy is about I really suggest you to read Alexis de Tocqueville "Democracy in America"...

Even I agree that his book is worth reading - the world has changed after it was published 170
years ago. So also what we think democracy is, has changed respectively.
Asking what is democracy - is similar of asking: what is good weather. You will get
a lot of different opinions - and they are all kind of right or wrong depending about your
own opinion. For most people democracy is joined to freedom and equality - and
paradoxically people often believe that "western democracy" is like that.

[lashachochua]

If you really want to feel and deeply undertand what the democracy is about I really suggest you to read Alexis de Tocqueville "Democracy in America"...

Even I agree that his book is worth reading - the world has changed after it was published 170
years ago. So also what we think democracy is, has changed respectively.
Asking what is democracy - is similar of asking: what is good weather. You will get
a lot of different opinions - and they are all kind of right or wrong depending about your
own opinion. For most people democracy is joined to freedom and equality - and
paradoxically people often believe that "western democracy" is like that.

Welcome back independent... Can you tell us what western democracy is about? freedom and equality...Equility is something different... you can not find a unique definition of it even under the liberals. Rawlsian equality, liberal or utilitarian... By the way which one you choose, which philosophy is close to you concerning equality?... Please be carefull, I do not want to find in you the ruins of communizm

[RusNeko]

Democracy, i think, is when people choose, not government. My opinion: the highest and best form of democracy is anarchy. Another question is - can we cope with it in our world..

[independent]

Welcome back independent...

Thank You lashachochua

Can you tell us what western democracy is about? freedom and equality...Equility is something different... you can not find a unique definition of it even under the liberals. Rawlsian equality, liberal or utilitarian... By the way which one you choose, which philosophy is close to you concerning equality?... Please be carefull, I do not want to find in you the ruins of communizm

I used term equality, but it was not explicitly what I meant . In finnish language we have a term which
means equality what comes to decision making and how society acts against it members - I just don't
know corresponding term in english language. So I meant rather that kind of equality.

Btw. I don't know if those (Rawlsian,liberal or utilitarian ) exclude each other - theoretically I like the
utilitarian idea - but because for me it is clear that there can't be any difference because of sex -
I must also agree whit liberal equality - Rawlsian Second Principle of Justice is a little bit
against my opinions. So I guess it makes me to be fan of liberal-utilitarian.
But I'm not too familiar with those models - so it is pretty shallow conclusion

[Eugene from Belarus]

Can we think that the country is democratic when:
- the government can tap it's citizens without any sanction of attorney?
- one of secret servises can grab people all over the world (without any accusations) and take it to prisons were such people are kept for years without any charges
- election of president: there is no real difference betwenn just 2 candidates. Each of the candidates borrow money from different companies. The president is not elected directly by people. the candidate that have the minority of votes can become the president
- people (over 300) who are going to express their dissatisfaction with the policy of the government and take part in mass-meeting are put to prison and accused of "conspiracy for the riot".
- media are fully controlled by the establishment. Newspapers and TV cover the developments tendentiousnessly and biassed, they mislead people to provide the government do all they want
- occupy different contries under false and fabricated pretence
- kill or arrest political leaders all over the world, organize revolutions
I think, yes. It's democratic country)))

[Steven]

Can we think that the country is democratic when:
- the government can tap it's citizens without any sanction of attorney?

- one of secret servises can grab people all over the world (without any accusations) and take it to prisons were such people are kept for years without any charges
- election of president: there is no real difference betwenn just 2 candidates. Each of the candidates borrow money from different companies. The president is not elected directly by people. the candidate that have the minority of votes can become the president
- people (over 300) who are going to express their dissatisfaction with the policy of the government and take part in mass-meeting are put to prison and accused of "conspiracy for the riot".
- media are fully controlled by the establishment. Newspapers and TV cover the developments tendentiousnessly and biassed, they mislead people to provide the government do all they want
- occupy different contries under false and fabricated pretence
- kill or arrest political leaders all over the world, organize revolutions
I think, yes. It's democratic country)))

I believe this it's the USA you are talking about, Eugene. USA is a country that likes to brainwash people's minds. It is democratic in the matter of allowing very naive and stupid acts in its country, for their citizens. It is obviously not democratic in regards to international policy.
USA claims there must be no discrimination. However, it does discriminate Arab countries.

[Giorgi]

What Is Democracy? SURE not connected to Russia

[Eka]

I suppose its democracy a la Russ:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008 ... table=true

[EU1]

Any country can have democracy especially if they obey the USA

[Eka]

One more xample of "Russian Democracy" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 36_pf.html.

[Newrussian town]

The Democracy existed in Ancient Greece, and in the Ancient Novogorod State cose the people ruled their country directly. We dont have a pure Democracy nowhere. I have dejawu USSR-" Are you Communists?
-Yes!!!
-That is alright comrads!!!
USA-" Are you Democrats?
-Yes!!!
-That is alright fellows!!!
If not, the answer was clear- KIA.

So if the USSR won the Cold War I everybody have been communists. And we would be hunting on democrats together nowadays:)

[M.Helen]

we can't say that capitalism won the "1st Cold War". As you see, communists are not hunted today

[Newrussian town]

Perhapes I would like that the 1st Cold war will be the last one. But like one ancient Greek said -" People tired from the music and songs much faster than from the war." We only want to rebuild our Empire or to be the part of the united Europe, " who can say, only time...."

[Benn]

Greek philosophers were smart enough at those times. It's a good thing Greece made the first step towards democracy at ancient times. Maybe due to Greece Europe is now enjoying its democratic way of life.

[Nicholas]

What Is Democracy? SURE not connected to Russia

If there would be no democracy in Russia, there won't be so many investors waiting in line for an opportunity to bite from the Russia's economy.

[Benn]

On the contrary, Russia represent a good money-laundering machine. Where there is no democracy, there is real opportunity of either to win a lot or to lose everything.

[Verb]

Actually ordinary people doesn't need democracy. Democracy in not the only possible perfection on the planet. And by the way democracy demands some conditions in order to exist. Democracy can exist only in countries with high level (standarts) of life.

Wery intresting when politics in USA tells that Ukraine and Georgia are "democratic states" though both states bans Russians TV channels and press. It is like Putin will ban BBC, Euronews, etc. in Russia and forbid learning of English language. But Putin is not democrat , they tell, though BBC and Euronews are still here.

There was no democracy in former USSR, but there were no terrorists, nazis, religious sects, mass crime etc. too. People in USSR have never had steel doors in their flats. It was safer place to live in the world. Think about it.

[Aeneas]

There was no democracy in former USSR, but there were no terrorists, nazis, religious sects, mass crime etc. too. People in USSR have never had steel doors in their flats. It was safer place to live in the world. Think about it.

I thought about and I think you're wrong. Don't take this as an attack on your political inclinations. It's just that things have changed radically all over the world since 30 years ago. Crime, perversion, intolerance, etc are at a pandemic level around the world. Perhaps a 100% jump in the population of the planet has something to do with it?