European Union Forums

[breeze]

Humanitarian catastrophe is a situation in South Ossetia called by world experts. Humanitarian catastrophe is a surface formulation behind which one can see no blood, no old men, women and children dying of wounds, thirst and hunger.
People, citizen of Ossetia, Georgia and Russia die, but culprits do not want to admit their guilt trying to shift it on Russia’s shoulders. Besides real war when cities get ruined, common people perish, bombs explode, and tanks move by city roads, there is another war. Information war.
Information given this or that way is also a weapon. Weapon of mass destruction. While Russia calls upon everybody for peace, receives south-ossetian refugees, brings humanitarian help to disaster regions, American journalists put their own accents, keeping silent about statements of Russian leaders. The President of Georgia gives exclusive interviews for American channels.

People perish.
Everything began on 7 August, Thursday evening. After fierce border skirmish President of Georgia, Michael Saakashvili, declared about the beginning of armistice. Despite it Georgian troops remained on their approach to South Ossetia. Soon it became clear, why. Less than an hour before midnight Georgian authorities declared that they denied their own moratorium. Then information agencies began to broadcast news about the beginning of invasion. South-ossetian villages were subjected to concentrated fire. Meanwhile Georgian television stated that there began an operation on restoration of constitutional order. At first South Ossetia was attacked from the east and west – armed forces seized eight villages.
People say: everything that takes place in South Ossetia for the last time is like the real hell. After squally fire Georgian soldiers made the so called mopping-ups. They entered houses and shot straight at children, old men and women. South Ossetia was almost sunk in blood. Those who survived hid in basements. In the city there were no gas, no products. Drinking water is like gold. Tshinvali is absolutely destroyed.

Saakashvili – star of American broadcasting.

After hurried retreat Georgian president gave an interview to American channel CNN and said that the conflict in South Ossetia was initiated by Russian Federation. Saakashvili stated that aggressor was not Georgia, but Russia that illegally invaded in the territory of the independent state.
Before Friday night western Mass Media took mainly a neutral position, but due to CNN they hurried to present a point of view of Saakashvili. And sites of western information agencies published headlines of Russian invasion. There is no question about objectivity of given facts. The Times decided not to answer this question who had really killed hundreds of people of Tshinvali, and BBC relying on words of Saakashvili Russian aviation of city bombardments.
Meantime Russian troops entered Tshinvali, protected peacemakers’ settlements and by Saturday morning pushed aside Georgian troops for safe distance. Georgia answered with a new coil of information war. All day long the national telecompany “Rustavi-2” shows stills accompanying them with messages as if Russian aviation had hit residential areas of Poty and Hory.

Who bombs whom?

Georgia keeps accusing Russia of aggression complaining of bombardment of peaceful cities. However, is it like that? Or does Georgia just try to derive attention from their aggressive actions in south-ossetian district?
Russian servicemen state with confidence that Russian army is not at war with common people.
Anatoly Nogovicin, vice-president of General Staff of RF’s armed forces: “I must say that there is a change of definitions. With the help of reconnaissance party including air reconnaissance party we determine a location of forming Georgian military groupings and forces that are in the second echelons, reserves that will act to some extent in the fight against south-ossetian subdivisions, according to our data. Hits are made only by these positions.
Georgian side calls some near-by settlements and cities and states that Russian aviation attacks them. I state with great responsibility: Russian side did not hit any settlement.”
Though martial law is introduced in Georgia, there is no trace of Tshinvali catastrophe. Cities are not ruined, common people do not perish under soldiers’ bombardment. Georgians themselves are evidence of it. Here are some excerpts from Internet diaries of Georgian users.
“Yesterday besides three thrown bombs in Vaziani, at the outskirts of Tbilici, where Russian base used to be, some aviations or something else bombed in Marneuli, Bolnici, Gori”. ( http://inna-kulishova.livejournal.com/58170.html )
Information blockade

But now citizen of the state can learn the information only from the authorities. Recently broadcasting of Russian channels is switched off on the whole territory of Georgia, but broadcasting of radio station “Voice of America” is doubled.
“Relatives from Tbilici have just called me. They were absolutely confident that South Ossetia started this war. I managed to change their mind. They were shocked having learnt about a quantity of the dead and wounded in South Ossetia. They said that Russian channels were switched off and they know only that information which is broadcast on local channels. Yesterday friends from Georgia called. They asked what was going on in fact. According to their words, it is officially broadcast that Tshinvali is totally controlled by Georgian troops, there are rumors in Tbilici that Georgian troops fled from South Ossetia. They do not know what to believe in”. ( http://liza-valieva.livejournal.com/79970.html )

Besides, one of the results of military actions between Georgia and South Ossetia became “internet-blockade”. On the territory of Georgia there are blocked sites in the domain zone “.ru”. Besides, there are problems with telephone link.
“Yes, we have troubles with link, either because of net overload or because of shortage of towers’ quantity”, - stated Alexander Savinov, press-secretary of RF’s embassy in Georgia.
Internet is an independent source of information, perhaps, disconnection of Russian sites is made in order to form Georgian public opinion without accounting of information that comes from Russia.
One can learn this information not only from Mass Media, but from words of Georgian common people.
“It seems that there is no access to Runet, I can’t get an access to my e-mail and read news. Any news, by any references. RTVi seems to return, but I don’t know in what kind. American telecompany in Russian will remain LJ (Live Journal). Will it last long?” ( http://innakulishova.livejournal.com/58967.html )
Is America innocent?
Former Foreign Minister of Georgia and one of opposition leaders Salome Zurabishvili stated that the USA must share responsibility for the situation in South Ossetia. American Mass Media judging by broadcastings and newspaper headlines do not hide their loyalty towards Michael Saakashvili. An anchorperson of CNN, Rick Sanches begins a live dialog not from a question to Vitaly Tchurkin, the constant representative of Russia by UNO, but from a statement that he repeats twice interrupting Russian diplomat: “This sounds as if it bothered you. The thing that you are doing now is attacking of Georgians!” “No, we did not lose temper – we just protect common people”, - answered Tchurkin.
Objectivity and candour remain on the background when people speak about national interests of the USA. What they are like, expressively demonstrates constant representative of the USA to UNO performing at the UN Security Council as if he represented Georgia, not the USA. There is no unity in rows of the Security Council. Two extra sittings ended without signing of documents and joint statements. The reason for it, by Vitaly Tchurkin’s words, is an absence of clear political guiding lines.

"There is about 100 thousand Ossetians, may be more. Two thousand dead and 30 thousand refugees - isn't it enough?! How many people should die so as to it should be classified as genocide?!" - claimed Churkin.
The UN Security Council discussed the situation in South Ossetia two weeks ago - it was the very moment, when one had to explain to Georgian diplomatist, why Georgian and American soldiery chose this very month, hot in this region, for combined exercises.

Thousands of americans and six hundred Georgian soldiers manoeuvred in polygon near Tbilisi, the campaign with bold and equivocal title: "Immediate answer - 2008". A week later after the termination of exercises it became clear, to which answer Georgia prepared under guidance of commander - in - chief of National Guards of the USA, William Nespit.

[Steven]

Thank you breeze,
I read your article with pleasure 'cause it gave me some information to learn. I was really concerned about the fact that Russia started the war, but now I begin to understand that it's not quite so. However, I still have some doubts. For example, you say the Gori was not attacked by Russian bombs, however there are many videos available on youtube that prove the fact that Russian bombs did fall on this region. How would you comment that?

[Likno]

http://engforum.pravda.ru/showthread.php?t=222036

[princesslexia]

Hello Im from Russia and I want to clear some points out. First of all there s the war not only with the help of guns and tanks and etc. Theres an information war. When i saw the meeting of UNO I really wanted to go there and split to everyone of that memebers in face. Whaen our represantative Churkin tried to explain them the real situation in Osetia, when he told the real facts the member of the USA, England, France and all other countries didnt listen to him!!! They said that its untruth and that he musnt "speak so rude"? But why? Is really that our high society doesnt want to call the facts with their real names? When over 2000 citizens were ruthlessly killed, not simply killed, but burnt in their houses, ran over by tanks, shot in sight, when small children were shot on the playgrounds and people were burnt in the hospitales, isnt it genicide??? When people were killed in church cos in Kaukas citizents could be hidden and saved in churces and nonone could destroy it and kill them, but here Georgian troops opened it and shot the people. When not only hospitals, schools, kindergartens, living houses, but even cemeteries were destroyed??? For what??? With what purpose??? Any civillian man understands that troops should fight with troops and not with armless people and sitizens!
Its not even nazism its worse. When the UNO is trying to make an air of anxiety and trouble making statements that the war should be haulted, people die in their basements without food, water and air. Why they wouldnt go to Osetia and wouldnt looka at the faces of that children who became dumb cos they saw how their mothers were torn into pieces by grenades and thei fathers buried in the gardens cos all the cemeteries are destryed???
How people can be so ruthless, so indifferent to their brothers??? But unfortunately today I see that all the warld is two-faced at least the leadres of this world. Its XXI century but live with such a puncher as Saakashvili who thinks its his duty to kill pieceful people, and such lickspittles and sluts as France, England, Ukraine, Poland and others who are ready to jump into a wall if the USA order.
Why all that memebers dont help Oseatia??? Why they dont carry any tank-trunk of water there to help the people. They dont see or dont want to see the whole picture because they act according to their interests. They dont pay 2 straws for a life of that girl who with her friends wass burnt alive in a shed.
Secondly Im very dissapointed that masses really dont know whats the matter. They see and listen to what their leaders want them to know.
And in conclusion a few words about Gori. Its truth that the village was fired upon. But only the points with weapon. which had been firing upon Zhinvali. It was neccesary. What about living houses and other village buildings they werent made any harm. Firstly the people thought that Russian troops will them as weel as Georgian ones had made so in Zhinvali and tried to flee but then they returned back cos we destroyed only the station with the arms. There the Russian troops found the map which was left in a hurry by fleeing Georgian soldiers with all the directions and with all the olan of their attack. Whats more interesting the whole operation was called " the clear field". Maybe cos Saakashvili wanted to leave the clear from Osetian and Abcasian people spaces and to grow new cities??? This I dont know but judging to his reactions it may be so.
What about the information that Russia wants to conquer Georgia I can just laugh. Its no use for Russia to do so. We have so many problems inside of our country which we cannot make clear that we dont need in one more. Besides if u know a little the history of Russia we didnt conquer anybody never. We can defend and here we defend our citizens cos we understand that if Russia doesnt help them noone in the world would help them. Cos we Russian people clearly understand that we are alone in this world and not so many countries really like us and want us to exist. This I can tell truly cos now Im a witness of all that situations which I can see with my OWN eyes and hear again with my OWN ears.

[Nicholas]

Thank you breeze,
I read your article with pleasure 'cause it gave me some information to learn. I was really concerned about the fact that Russia started the war, but now I begin to understand that it's not quite so. However, I still have some doubts. For example, you say the Gori was not attacked by Russian bombs, however there are many videos available on youtube that prove the fact that Russian bombs did fall on this region. How would you comment that?

Don't fell for this, as you have already said, the facts that you see on TV channels are more close to reality then something told by any ordinary or official person.

[Hakan G]

What about the information that Russia wants to conquer Georgia I can just laugh. Its no use for Russia to do so. We have so many problems inside of our country which we cannot make clear that we dont need in one more. Besides if u know a little the history of Russia we didnt conquer anybody never. We can defend and here we defend our citizens cos we understand that if Russia doesnt help them noone in the world would help them. Cos we Russian people clearly understand that we are alone in this world and not so many countries really like us and want us to exist. This I can tell truly cos now Im a witness of all that situations which I can see with my OWN eyes and hear again with my OWN ears.

Russia behaves as Georgia is part of it and USSR is still alive.
There are many goals being followed by Russia by invading it. Of course you know Georgia’s geographical situation, then you should also know about the friendly American relations cared by it. These relations would have presumed a very close location of the anti-missile system near Russia, that’s why they did what it did.

[breeze]

to Steven
Russia bombed only those territories, which “ would be involved in the fight with South Ossetia elements”. There is no shots, where Russian troops bomb civilians. And I repeat: they bombed aircraft – places in Gori. With the help of propagandistic mass – media company Georgia and Saakashivily easily managed to turn Russia from peacekeeper into aggressor, and themselves – from barbarian into herald of peace.

[breeze]

to Hakan
U see, that Russia just conducts humanly and protects civils, who r innocent, and they suffer from fascist actions! And all the other countries just observe it, when Georgia bombed South Ossetia... And it happens not for the first time! Reflect upon it - why refugees go to North Ossetia - the part of Russia? But they are afraid of going to Georgia!! Why Ossetians ask for Russia's help??? Can she shut her eyes to all this? Besides, according to the convention of 1992 in Sochi Russia must protect Ossetia. You can find information here: http://engforum.pravda.ru/showthread.php?t=222036
I think, Russia behaved with fortitude and others should be ashamed for their indecision and cowardice.

[Tamara_Georgia Girl]

BREEZE MY DEAR WHAT FOR YOU DO THIS? OF COURSE THEY DO BOMBED!! I AM EYE-WITNESS THAT RUSSIANJETS BOMBED NEAR M HOUSE WHERE GOES PIPELINE OF OIL AND GAS...I WAS SAVED, BUT THEY BOMBED PORT POTY WHERE 6 PEOPLE DIED AND 40 INJURED. YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THIS BECOUSE YOU NEVER WANTED TO DO THAT.. AGAIN_THEY BOMBED CAPITAL T B I L I S I MAYBE 4 TIMES and many injured bcs of this and died ,in Senaki during all night bombing our reserve militaries 20 year old boys died ,IS THIS FAIR?
ok now i am tired of explainig who began the war, you don't anderstand anyway, if you want reality you should see HRW conclusion and other facts..we have too many russian bombs and military trush here to proove here what they bombed and where.. so after little time whole world will see who began and who became the sacrifece of big atteck..
people i only ask you to observe the things attantively, don't see only one side of a coin, we were attecked not only tanks, also big propaganda machine of russia did everything to change the FACTS here( like in soviet union)... , and i've seen russian journalist lying beside me and sayng there was no nothing bombed in GORI, it was awful bcs that city was attacked lot and 23 000 refugees went from that place , so if no bombings who would left the city Gori??... so be resonable! i hope everything will be ok

[Alenika]

Telling of truth and lie...
Do you know which country realy help osetin people with meals, water and so on in first days of the war? Georgia did? Or US? Or EU?
No, Russia did. Russia provide South osetia with water, bread, clothing. Russia repairs electricity, tries to reconstruct social building, and build for osetin people infrastructure where would be possible to live.
Question, why georgian government doesn't want to do the same?

[Skal]

We Russians want peace.
Here's my article on the issue:
http://inside.skal.ru/2008/08/16/29/

[Buka]

I venture to interfere in it:
What are you discussing? That Russia is bombing Gori? Or who has destroyed sleeping Tshenvali and responsible for 1400 dead civilians? That’s it! Let’s view it more attentively and use our brains, but not rely upon TV.
1. It’s the fact, that mass media of all the countries LIE! So, who likes “watching video” and believe, that it’s the fact, I’m afraid, I’ll disappoint you . I’ve seen on CNN the headline: “Russia is bombing Abkhazia”… and they didn’t even try to learn, that Russia and Abkhazia are allied in this conflict. Then it’s shown on TV, that Georgia “grads” are riding along sleeping Tshenvali and there are commentaries: “Russia attacked Georgia”. They lie, of course, like those, who say, that Georgia wasn’t bombed in reply. So, I remind one cannot trust mass media! At all! One can show everything, even the picture, where Armstrong is walking on the surface of the moon.
2. Those, who understand a little military science, know, that after Georgia’s attack of South Ossetia, Russia couldn’t bomb Georgian reserve militaries. It would be madness, ravings, dilettantism and such commanders would be given the sack! And as for the fact that civilians don’t die during bombardments, it’s also nonsense. They always die, because “high quality ammunition” are those, which hit the target in 50% and there in no use to tell about the ordinary ones. So, understand, when the war began, one has no opportunity to think about humanity. It’s too late. There would be blood and destruction from everywhere.
3. Don’t take it personally, I sympathize with the people from another side of barricade, they are in such a trouble… It’s such a tragedy! But, understand me in a right way, those bustards, who started this slaughter must be strung up!
4. Who benefited from everything? There is no use to write everything. You can find a worthy answer here http://engforum.pravda.ru/showthread.php?t=222036
I’ll just add only two things:
a) The attack was fulfilled only after combined military exercises of Georgia and NATO and Georgia thoroughly re – equipped;
b) If Russia attacked Georgia, it would be thoroughly occupied long ago. Don’t even doubt it.

[Hakan G]

to Hakan
...Reflect upon it - why refugees go to North Ossetia - the part of Russia? But they are afraid of going to Georgia!!...

It is absolutely logical for them to head for Russia, not Georgia, as long as people in Ossetia are Russian citizens, or its supporters. Therefore, this doesn’t prove anything.

[Karl.in.eu]

We Russians want peace.
Here's my article on the issue:
http://inside.skal.ru/2008/08/16/29/

I went through the article quite quickly, because it has the same ideas as Russian people were sharing in this forum, and I don’t have anything against this, but the fact that you missed one point: Russia started the war for security purposes mainly aimed against USA.

[M.Helen]

Maybe the purposes of securing the region against the USA is only a coincidence. By responding to the Georgian attacks, Russia, at the same time, ensured that US doesn't come closer to it. But, again, it wasn't the core purpose.

[Karl.in.eu]

Maybe the purposes of securing the region against the USA is only a coincidence. By responding to the Georgian attacks, Russia, at the same time, ensured that US doesn't come closer to it. But, again, it wasn't the core purpose.

There are too many coincidences in this war no?

[Nicholas]

Yeah like how Russian jet fighter aircraft was flying above the same place Saakashvili was visiting.
A militarization mission was transformed in a show that demonstrated the desperate situation in Georgia. .. Yeah right. Fighter jets usually fly only at night

[Hakan G]

Russian fighter jets were flying in the middle of the day also, you can watch it here bombing Gori:

[Nicholas]

Were from do you know those are Russian planes?

[Hakan G]

Were from do you know those are Russian planes?

You mean Georgian fighter jets were bombing its own cities.. Oh yeah..sure, that’s a good theory.

[Lenus]

Dear me, dear me...

How many Topics must be open about Brilliant Russians who save hungry and thirsty Ossetians form Georgian agreessors?

A little reminder:

few years back, Ossetian School in Beslan was seiged by Chechens (Or FSB claimed so). Their only demand was to withdraws troops from Chechnya, as at the time was reported by Anna Politkovskaya, there were 40,000 children killed by Russian Bombardings in Civilian areas.

Yet Russian President Putin decides to attack the school. WIthdrawal from Chechnya was too humiliating for Russian Empire.

What about the outcome? 8 hours of attacking resulted in 1000 or so dead, and 350 missing CHildren.

OK, I am not going to argue how brutal or insane is to kill or get your 1000 kids killed.

But what worries me is MISSING 350 CHildren.
How on earth can you lose 350 Children from The surrounded School??

HEre is my version. After some hours of attacking, Terrorists let the kids run out of the school. SOme of them got bullets from attacking forces. And in order not to demostrate the wounds in front par fo the bodies.... government decided to declare them LOST!

350 Children went missing from that event.

I give you right to guess (if you dont know yet) what happend to Journaluist Politkovksya.


And when these people start talking about counting causalties, bringing other peoples atrocities to UN Security Council's attention, I am not suprirsed at all, CHurking was called a Lyar.

You thinkg Russians are smart and everyone else is Stupid. Time to wake up, Russkis.

-------------------
Lyar Lyar, Your pants on fire
remember?

[Eka]

Hello Im from Russia and I want to clear some points out. First of all there s the war not only with the help of guns and tanks and etc. Theres an information war. When i saw the meeting of UNO I really wanted to go there and split to everyone of that memebers in face. Whaen our represantative Churkin tried to explain them the real situation in Osetia, when he told the real facts the member of the USA, England, France and all other countries didnt listen to him!!! They said that its untruth and that he musnt "speak so rude"? But why? Is really that our high society doesnt want to call the facts with their real names? When over 2000 citizens were ruthlessly killed, not simply killed, but burnt in their houses, ran over by tanks, shot in sight, when small children were shot on the playgrounds and people were burnt in the hospitales, isnt it genicide??? When people were killed in church cos in Kaukas citizents could be hidden and saved in churces and nonone could destroy it and kill them, but here Georgian troops opened it and shot the people. When not only hospitals, schools, kindergartens, living houses, but even cemeteries were destroyed??? For what??? With what purpose??? Any civillian man understands that troops should fight with troops and not with armless people and sitizens!
Its not even nazism its worse. When the UNO is trying to make an air of anxiety and trouble making statements that the war should be haulted, people die in their basements without food, water and air. Why they wouldnt go to Osetia and wouldnt looka at the faces of that children who became dumb cos they saw how their mothers were torn into pieces by grenades and thei fathers buried in the gardens cos all the cemeteries are destryed???
How people can be so ruthless, so indifferent to their brothers??? But unfortunately today I see that all the warld is two-faced at least the leadres of this world. Its XXI century but live with such a puncher as Saakashvili who thinks its his duty to kill pieceful people, and such lickspittles and sluts as France, England, Ukraine, Poland and others who are ready to jump into a wall if the USA order.
Why all that memebers dont help Oseatia??? Why they dont carry any tank-trunk of water there to help the people. They dont see or dont want to see the whole picture because they act according to their interests. They dont pay 2 straws for a life of that girl who with her friends wass burnt alive in a shed.
Secondly Im very dissapointed that masses really dont know whats the matter. They see and listen to what their leaders want them to know.
And in conclusion a few words about Gori. Its truth that the village was fired upon. But only the points with weapon. which had been firing upon Zhinvali. It was neccesary. What about living houses and other village buildings they werent made any harm. Firstly the people thought that Russian troops will them as weel as Georgian ones had made so in Zhinvali and tried to flee but then they returned back cos we destroyed only the station with the arms. There the Russian troops found the map which was left in a hurry by fleeing Georgian soldiers with all the directions and with all the olan of their attack. Whats more interesting the whole operation was called " the clear field". Maybe cos Saakashvili wanted to leave the clear from Osetian and Abcasian people spaces and to grow new cities??? This I dont know but judging to his reactions it may be so.
What about the information that Russia wants to conquer Georgia I can just laugh. Its no use for Russia to do so. We have so many problems inside of our country which we cannot make clear that we dont need in one more. Besides if u know a little the history of Russia we didnt conquer anybody never. We can defend and here we defend our citizens cos we understand that if Russia doesnt help them noone in the world would help them. Cos we Russian people clearly understand that we are alone in this world and not so many countries really like us and want us to exist. This I can tell truly cos now Im a witness of all that situations which I can see with my OWN eyes and hear again with my OWN ears.

YOU ARE REALL KGB AGENT!!!

I feel it!!!!

[Mariam]

Were from do you know those are Russian planes?

Russians used to bomb their own cities, therefore nicolas accepted that amazing theory

[Nicholas]

Were from do you know those are Russian planes?

Russians used to bomb their own cities, therefore nicolas accepted that amazing theory

What do you mean?

[Eka]

Were from do you know those are Russian planes?

Russians used to bomb their own cities, therefore nicolas accepted that amazing theory

What do you mean?

expolozians in metro and in residental buildings in moscow , beslan, Theatre,from which Chechnia war starts and pUtins " glory" begins! yes this is ment by MAriam I suppose!!!!