European Union Forums

[clearman]

The Balkans Orthodox countries are the inheritors of Byzantium. The west Europeans and the Americans have to learn a lot about their struggled history, their powerful faith in God, their heroically fights against oppressors, their traditional orthodox music and art.

Byzantine Empire:
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p ... F9F2F3E646

Orthodox music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Quj_ChDa ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bIgJaNE ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o55B2JSV ... re=related

[Steven]

I support you clearman!

[Steven]

orthodox countries are not inferior to catholic countries, they even have a richer history. Americans certainly have a lot of things to learn.

[fim]

orthodox countries are not inferior to catholic countries, they even have a richer history. Americans certainly have a lot of things to learn.

Maybe Americans know about religions and people, more than you people you know about your self!
I allready have copy of som special US documents about any conrtry, sect ore nation in the world, about most important things any governmant would ewer apretiete to have.
Now I em gon to tell you one thing from this document copy I have, and is dedicated to any nation ore country in the world!
Any nation, sect ore country uses it's religion as a wapeon are in the name of it, are as one excuse religion to attack..., will sufer itself from others....do I have to name it here, are see for your self the Talebans, the palestines, the sectarian iraki, the hitler and the serbs anti bosnian muslim and anti Kosovar albanians!
Any people in the world shall be free to chose wot they want to believe, as long as they dont interfere athers!

[clearman]

These days, 555 years past from the Fall of Constantinople.
Hagia Sophia, is the most beautiful church of the Byzantines.

[Terry]

I think orthodox religion has much more traditions than the catholic one. Orthodox people follow their religion rules more carefully than the catholics

[clearman]

It's true... and Orthodoxy is the unchanged religion from the beginning of Christianity. Nothing was misrepresented and altered!

[Terry]

respect for you clearman

[sasha]

Is it true that there was constant convoy of stolen gold from Constantinopolis to western counties for 50 years after first fall of that city and Latin empire was established? Only after that west took advantage in developement over east.
Shut up fim you are stupid!
It stinks from your mouth

[clearman]

Byzantium and the Crusaders.

“In the morning they went into the Hagia Sophia and opening the doors, they cut off the embolus made of silver, they tore off twelve silver columns and tore down four iconostases, and twelve holy tables and altar gates. They took together with the precious vessels the Gospels, crosses and icons, from the latter of which they tore off the rizas… Thus did they rob the Hagia Sophia, the Church of the Theotokos of Blachernae … this is not to speak of the other churches, for they are without number…” These sorrowful lines describe not the sacking of Constantinople by the Turks, but the entrance into the capital of Byzantium by Latin knights during the fourth crusade (F. I. Uspensky, The History of the Crusades). Holy relics, wealth, masterpieces of art, iconography, and craft were carried away from Byzantium to the West. We can now admire all of these riches in the museums of Venice and Paris, and in the cathedrals of European cities.

The text of the Russian film “The fall of an empire-the Lesson of Byzantium”
http://www.pravoslavie.ru/enarticles/080211155439

[Terry]

the orthodox have very nice icons, they are decorated with gold, silver... very nice

[Benn]

Orthodoxian people I would say are true believers. For example I know they have serious attitude towards fasting, towards tradition etc.

[AriRusila]

More comments & analysis today´s Blakans one can find from BalkanBlog - https://arirusila.wordpress.com

[clearman]

welcome AriRusila thanks for sharing your Balkan experience

[Benn]

More comments & analysis today´s Blakans one can find from BalkanBlog - https://arirusila.wordpress.com

thanks Ari, but why don't you place comments on this topic. Your information is too general.

[AriRusila]

This week U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Daniel Fried said that the U.S. is satisfied with the progress Kosovo. He also add that:

“It is a place completely independent, regardless of whether a UN resolution says that exists or not. It is independent. Kosovo has been recognized by two-thirds of the EU sates, Europe, Japan and Australia. It is as an independent country. I feel sorry that Russia has chosen to make this thing more difficult rather than to ease it, risking the stability but also the European future of Serbia”.

Few comments:

* Completely independent must be a joke. Kosovo is UN protectorate where UN and EU are arguing who has authority to supervise it, Kosovo is occupied by KFOR troops owns one of the biggest Nato bases in its territory and has all symptoms to come next “failed state” in World.
* Recognizing as argument fails also: 40 countries is not the world, some World´s biggest countries - Brazil, China, India, Russia have not recognized it are not planning to do it before new negotiations about status.
* Russia has indeed made thing more difficult because it has defended UN Charter and international law which US&allies have been breaking last decades.
* Strong arguments could be made that US Balkan policy has been risking the Balkan stability by creating a precedent to some 5000 ethnic groups scattered across the globe.

James Bisset was Canada’s ambassador to Yugoslavia, Bulgaria and Albania. He is widely recognized as one of the foremost authorities on Balkan politics. I agree with most of his analysis and quote one of them here:

“United States policy in the Balkans has been dysfunctional since March 1992 when their Ambassador, Warren Zimmerman, persuaded Izetbegovic the Islamist leader of the Bosnian Muslims to withdraw his signature to the Lisbon Agreement. This decision which led to US acceptance of the results of an illegal referendum and recognition of the first Muslim state in Europe triggered civil war in Bosnia and led directly to the death and destruction that followed. In the following years US decisions have proven to be equally disastrous for the region.

The decision of the United States government to support the cause of the terrorist KLA in its armed rebellion to secede from Yugoslavia is another example of US policy making gone wrong.Their current policy supporting independence for Kosovo is but another chapter in an unfolding series of strategic errors.

United States policy in the Balkans has been characterized by cynicism, duplicity and short term tactical gain. By backing Islamist aims in the region and supporting terrorist groups in Kosovo there might be the immediate advantage of establishing a large military base in Kosovo or appeasing further Albanian demands by advocating independence for Kosovo but in the long term it will backfire.”

[clearman]

And the future of this region will be...

[AriRusila]

There will be a future with different scenarios.
a) "laizez faire" frozen conflict, west does not revise its politics, east keeps positions. EU will "supervise Kosovo some 20 years backed with Nato, north part lives its life integrated to Serbia - same case with Bosnia. Maybe the most realistic and easy (no one needs to do anything) scenario.
b) US revises its foreign policy after elections withdraws recognizing of Kosovo, real talks are starting and ending to bitter compromise (e.g. partitioning Kosovo, applying Hong Kong model ...), Serbia, Kosovo, Bosnia are independently concentrating more to economical/social questions instead of quarreling borders. Pragmatic result, needs hard work from all stakeholders.
c) diversity model where all Balkan countries have their own development paths - some countries are going to join fast to EU (Croatia), some are going to do it later (Macedonia, Albania), some are maybe looking alliances from other directions also (Serbia) .

So I indeed think that western Balkan sates will have good future - especially if one compares it to past decades. My forecast is that in Balkans conflicts will be in smaller scale than before, tolerance and economy are growing and people are starting think more future than past.

[Faw_Peter]

Too many cases of territory separation in the Balkan region, that's why I can't say they are thinking about the day of tomorrow, they are still full of old historical ideas which can't leave their heads for a minute.

[sasha]

I think that communism is German invention and Lenin was German spy with the mission to disqualify Russia from WWI. He succeded, but comunism was at large. It couldn't be controled anymore. This process made fashism as spare effect, naturally developed to make natural balance toward communism.

[clearman]

Too many cases of territory separation in the Balkan region, that's why I can't say they are thinking about the day of tomorrow, they are still full of old historical ideas which can't leave their heads for a minute.

Peter, if the Balkan peoples didn't exist, today entire Europe could speak in Arab or Turkish language. The Serbs, Romanians, Albanians, Greeks, Magyars... fought with Ottomans. Remember that!
These peoples have a nationalist attitude because 500 years they were under Islam...

The European Union Parliament is pressuring the Turkish Government to restore Saint Sophia Cathedral from Istanbul (Constantinople) a museum into a Greek Orthodox Church. However the Parliament has set a requirement of 1.000.000 signatures on a petition before it makes this conversation a prerequisite for Turkey’s admission into the European Union.
You are requested to cast your vote by logging on to a link at http://www.hagiasophiablog.com This is an opportunity for each of you to have an impact on world events. Get as many friends of yours to sign the petition and make history.

[M.Helen]

Thank you clearman, I submitted my vote. But do you think it will seriously be taken as a signature? This is on-line! Such things must take real signatures with the data of your passport. It's too serious to do that on-line.

[clearman]

Helen, thank you! I’ve received this invitation few days ago.
Maybe after 1,000,000 signatures, they’ll ask our ID, I suppose (by e-mail)….or maybe I’m wrong? Do you think that could be a fraud or something?

[Benn]

I visited this webpage. I can't say it's a fraud or something, I mean what can they benefit from? But at the same time Helen is right, such acts require seriousness, and there is no proof that the person mentioned in the submitted act is really the person he pretends to be.

[Terry]

Peter, if the Balkan peoples didn't exist, today entire Europe could speak in Arab or Turkish language. The Serbs, Romanians, Albanians, Greeks, Magyars... fought with Ottomans. Remember that!
These peoples have a nationalist attitude because 500 years they were under Islam...

Don't you think it's high time for them to leave behind their nationalistic attitude?