European Union Forums

[Benn]

well it's seems to be not so easy to solve and stupid if it emerged. Anyways, even if the opposition is elected, the country will not join soon NATO, let alone EU. At least 5-6 years are required for preparing the country for its adherence.

[Hellenicoz]

well it's seems to be not so easy to solve and stupid if it emerged. Anyways, even if the opposition is elected, the country will join soon NATO, let alone EU. At least 5-6 years are required for preparing the country for its adherence.

First FYROM have to be accepted into Nato or EU by being voted in by all members & if they dont solve the "Macedonia Name Issue" Greece will continue to put a veto on FYROM from joining Nato or the EU.

[Hellenicoz]

MACEDONIANS CAME FROM THE GREEK TRIBE OF DORIANS LIKE THE SPARTANS. FROM THE DORIC WORD "MAKEDNOS" WHICH MEANS "TALL", THEIR LAND WAS NAMED "MAKEDONIA".
ATHENIANS CAME FROM THE GREEK TRIBE OF IONIANS. IONIANS AND DORIANS WERE RIVALS AND THAT IS WHY MACEDONIANS AND SPARTANS ENGAGED MOST OF THE TIMES IN CIVIL WARS AGAINST THE ATHENIANS!

ALEXANDROS'(THE GREAT) NAME IS DERIVED FROM THE WORDS "ALEXO" (PROTECT) & "ANDRAS" (MAN).

FILIPPOS' NAME IS DERIVED FROM THE WORDS "FILOS" (FRIEND) & "IPPOS" (HORSE).

OLYMPIAS' NAME IS DERIVED FROM THE GREEK HOLY MOUNTAIN "OLYMPOS"

IN ANTIQUITY THE OLYMPIC GAMES WERE ONLY ALLOWED FOR GREEKS CAUSE THEY WERE RELIGIOUS GAMES DEDICATED TO ZEUS. MACEDONIANS LIKE THE REST OF THE GREEKS PARTICIPATED IN THE GAMES!

[Hellenicoz]

Alexander: "For I Alexander myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I would not willingly see Hellas change her freedom for slavery"
Herodotus, loeb:IX, 45,2

Alexander addressing to his Macedonian troops:
"We can move against the barbarians and liberate ourselves from the Persian bondage for as Hellenes(Greeks) we should not be slaves to barbarians"
Callisthenes 1.15.1-4

[Hellenicoz]

Past leaders of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia even admitted they are Slavs or Bulgarians & not Macedonian.

Quotes Made by the Leaders of F.Y.R.O.M. that Contradict their Efforts
"We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century ... we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians."
Quote from FYROM'S President Mr. Kiro Gligorov.
(from the Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35.)

"We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians. That's who we are! We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia. The ancient Macedonians no longer exist, they had disappeared from history long time ago. Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century."
Quote from FYROM'S President Mr. Kiro Gligorov.
(from the Toronto Star newspaper, March 15, 1992)
(after these comments, there was a terrorist attack on the ex-president of the F.Y.R.O.M. Kiro Gligorov. It nearly cost him his life)
22 January 1999: FYROM'S Ambassador in Washington, Mrs. Ljubica Acevshka, gave a speech on the present situation in the Balkans. At the end of her speech answering questions Mrs. Acevshka said:
"We do not claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great." "Greece is FYROM'S second largest trading partner, and its number one investor. Instead of opting for war, we have chosen the mediation of the United Nations, with talks on the ambassadorial level under Mr. Vance and Mr. Nimitz."
In reply to another question about the ethnic origin of the people of FYROM, Ambassador Achevska stated:
"we are Slavs and we speak a Slav language."

24 February 1999: In an interview with the Ottawa Citizen, Gyordan Veselinov, FYROM'S Ambassador to Canada, admitted,
"We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian."
He also commented
"there is some confusion about the identity of the people of this country."

[Terry]

"We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian."

good words, it's a pity that the entire FYROM nation didn't hear them. Indeed, a lot of time and forces are wasted just to determine a name of a country and for fighting for the alleged truth... Greeks...Macedonians.. it doesn't matter. What really matters is collaboration between the two countries. Political border is not a barrier for any of the citizen to cross it and live wherever he/she wants

[Hellenicoz]

"We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian."

good words, it's a pity that the entire FYROM nation didn't hear them. Indeed, a lot of time and forces are wasted just to determine a name of a country and for fighting for the alleged truth... Greeks...Macedonians.. it doesn't matter. What really matters is collaboration between the two countries. Political border is not a barrier for any of the citizen to cross it and live wherever he/she wants

FYROM using the same name as the northern Greek Province "MACEDONIA" when it got its independence from Yugoslavia in 1991 is the major problem & everything else relates around it.

There is no real problem with borders or barriers for any citizen to live wherever they wish. There are many Former Yugoslav Macedonians living in Greece & many Greek Macedonians living in the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia.

Its about Greece's identity & history being thretened by leaders of FYROM with false propaganda to be accepted in the region.

Greece has no problem with the former Southern Yugoslav state being recognised as "Slav Macedonia", "North Macedonia", "New Macedonia", "Vardarska Macedonia" or any other name to destingish to two regions. Macedonia has been part of Greece for thousands of years & someone cant just pop up & decide to take the name because they once lived in the region.

[Faw_Peter]

Hey guys, I read that 2.5 million Greek citizens currently live in the Greek part of Macedonia, and most of them up to the moment call and consider themselves Macedonians, is it true?

[Hellenicoz]

Hey guys, I read that 2.5 million Greek citizens currently live in the Greek part of Macedonia, and most of them up to the moment call and consider themselves Macedonians, is it true?

Yes, Greeks citizens in the northern Greek province of Macedonia consider themselves Macedonians, just like Greek citizens from Athens consider themselves Athenians, just like Germans citizens in the German province of Bavaria consider themselves Bavarians & the US citizens living Calafornia consider themselves Calafornian.
The current Prime Minister of Greece, Konstantínos Karamanlis considers himself Macedonian just like one of the most famous Greeks, Alexander The Great considered himself Macedonian, back when these province's of Greece were were Kingdoms (eg Kingdom of Macedonia, Kingdom of Sparta, Kingdom of Epirus etc) which made up Greece.

Just a reminder:

Alexander: "For I Alexander myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I would not willingly see Hellas change her freedom for slavery"
Herodotus, loeb:IX, 45,2

Alexander addressing to his Macedonian troops:
"We can move against the barbarians and liberate ourselves from the Persian bondage for as Hellenes(Greeks) we should not be slaves to barbarians"
Callisthenes 1.15.1-4

This was thousands of years before the people of Slavic origins arrived in the region in the 6th Century & even up until 1944 considered themslves Southern Serbs from Vardarska & later Yugoslavs up until 1991. After its independence from Yugoslavia they were accepted only by a provissional name of "The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" & not an official name until an agreement with Greece on a alternate name from the prefered name of "Republic of Macedonia" which isnt recognised by the United Nations & Greece whom have Macedonia as their northern province.

Some of the names which have come up in negotiations have been "New Macedonia", "North Macedonia", & "Slavic Macedonia". Greece would then vote them in as a new member of NATO & the European Union & work together to build the countries economy & security in the region.

I would love to see peace between these two countries.

[M.Helen]

Greece will put its veto on FYROM's entry into NATO and European Union if the issue is not solved. You know what, I see no near prospects for this conflict to be solved, since both sides are stubborn and it's hard to predict which one will finally cede.

[Hellenicoz]

When FYROM first got its independence from Yugoslavia, Greece wanted the new independent country to have no Macedonia in its name at all, due to Greece's northern province already having the name Macedonia. A few years later Greece compromised to allow the former Southern Yugoslav state to have Macedonia as ONLY PART OF THE NAME to be accepted officially by the United Nations under the provissional name of "The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" in a hope that with compromise also from the FYROM side, an agreement would be met somewhere halfway on a offical name for the country to distinguish its self from Macedonia which already exists for thousands of years in the north of Greece. Eg "North or Northern Macedonia", "Slavic Macedonia" or "New Macedonia". After Greece compromised in allowing the new independent country to be accepted by the United Nations with Macedonia still be a part of the countries name, Greece are still waiting for a compromise from the side of FYROM.
Instead the Gruevski government has consciously chosen nationalism instead of relations of good neighbourliness with Greece & as long as Gruevski is the stubborn leader of the FYROM, nothing will be solved & yes Greece will continue to veto FYROM for the next thousand years if they have to protect their identity.

[M.Helen]

the disputes on this topic began since 1991, when Yugoslavia broke up.

[Hellenicoz]

Addressed to the international academic community

When Slovenia declared its independence in 1991, it issued a banknote depicting an Austrian throne of the fourteenth century. Austria immediately accused Slovenia of an infringement upon its history and its symbols and demanded that the banknote be withdrawn. The Slovenians complied.

Under the circumstances, how should Greece react, given the fact that FYROM - as attested by its new school textbooks for 1992-3 - appropriate the whole of Macedonian history which is a cherished element of the Greek national and cultural identity?

The Hellenistic period (335-30 BC) was created by Alexander the Great and his Greek Macedonian diadochi, and was so named because it was, during that period, that the Hellenic culture was diffused throughout the world. It brought new scientific, philosophical, and religious ideas that dominated the world for centuries and influenced the development of all cultures. Can these achievements, by any stress of imagination, be attributed to the... ancestors of FYROM? Their ancestors came into the area centuries after that period.

The Russian historian Avraam B. Rankovitch (of the Soviet Academy of Sciences), in his book, Hellenistic Period, p. 285, writes: "The culture that was fostered in the Hellenistic period also burst the bounds of the Hellenistic world. This culture, which was later inherited by the Roman Empire, Byzantium, and the peoples of the East, exercised a significant influence on the culture of the modern era".

Consequently, the falsification of Macedonian history is not an affront to the Greeks alone, but to the world civilization, as a whole.

In June 1992, Dr. Henry Kissinger, as a self-respecting historian, made a statement in Paris in which he described the history of Macedonia as the strong weapon that justifies Greece's inalienable right to the name of "Macedonia".

My book The Falsification of Macedonian History, reveals the extent to which Skopje has falsified Macedonian history. I believe that there is irrefutable evidence from the works of ancient Greek writers, the Old and the New Testament, Jewish writers and thousands of Greek inscriptions found on Macedonian territory. They all attest to the Hellenic identity of the ancient Macedonians. This was very well known in the ancient world, as shown by the fact that the Macedonians participated in the Amphictyonies and in the Olympic Games.

Among other acknowledgments regarding the value and validity of my book, I was honored by the former Chancellor of Germany, Mr. Helmut Schmidt and the former President of France Mr. Valery Giscard d'Estaing. (see Document No 13)

As I pointed out in a letter to President Clinton on November 20, 1993 the creation of the "Republic of Macedonia" is an act of hostility against Greece for the following reasons:

it constitutes an illicit usurpation of the name, the history and the cultural heritage of Greek Macedonia;
it denies the "Greek character" of Greek Macedonia and, thus, encourages the aggressive pretensions against Greek territories;
it interrupts the continuity of Greek history, given that, from 337 BC the Greeks at Corinth (A< HREF="doc14.html">see Document No 14) made first Philip and later his son Alexander (not, certainly, Mr. Gligorov's ancestors) their King and Commander-in-Chief in the war against the Persians.
It is everybody's duty to research and confirm the truth of these assertions. Ancient Macedonia, as a constituent element of Hellenism, is the very cornerstone of modern Western civilization, an arena of desperate battles for freedom and democracy; in particular the international centers of science and learning, have an obligation towards the free people to present the truth, the fundamental prerequisite of democracy.

The following Macedonian Greeks set their seal on the history of Greece, Europe, and the whole world:

Philip of Macedon, who established the Macedonian Kingdom as a great political power and urged on by the Athenian Isocrates, was the pioneer of the European idea. "Argos is the land of your fathers". Isocrates, To Philip XII, 32 (Loeb, G. Norlin);
Aristotle, the scientist and philosopher whose work will always influence research and knowledge;
Alexander the Great, the most stupendous historical figure ever, who influenced the course of world history tremendously. Alexander was the first ever to talk of peace and fraternity between all peoples (Plutarch's On the Fate and Virtue of Alexander and Holzner and Arrian) and the first to speak out against racial discrimination (Arrian and Martis' Logos).
"Alexander gave a general feast, sitting himself there, and all the Macedonians sifting round him; and then next to them Persians, and next any of the other tribes... And Alexander prayed for all sorts of blessings, and especially for harmony and fellowship in the empire between Macedonians and Persians. They say that those who shared the feast were nine thousand, and that they all poured the same libation and there of sang the one song of victory" Arrian, Anabasis of Alexander VII, 11, 8-9 (Loeb, F.C. Babbitt)

He put this latter principle into action by marrying Roxana and Darius' daughter. Stateira, as also by countenancing the marriage of hundreds of his officers with Persians (Plutarch).

Furthermore, he entrusted various sectors of his administration to foreign officers of countries he had conquered. By overthrowing the Persian Empire, transmitting Greek civilization to the East, and establishing Greek as the lingua franca of all peoples, he changed the history of the whole world.

"If it were not my purpose to combine foreign things with things Greek, to traverse and civilize every continent, to search out the uttermost parts of land and sea, to push the bounds of Macedonia to the farthest Ocean, and to disseminate and shower the blessings of Greek justice and peace over every nation, I should not content to sit quietly in the luxury of idle power, but I should emulate the frugality of Diogenes" Plutarch's Moralia, On the Fortune of Alexander I ,332A (Loeb, F.C Babbitt)

"Yet through Alexander Bactria and the Caucasus learned to revere the gods of Greeks... Alexander established more than seventy cities among savage tribes, and sowed all Asia with Grecian magistracies. Egypt would not have its Alexandria, nor Mesopotamia its Seleucia, nor Sogdiana its Prophthasia, nor India its Bucephalia, no the Caucasus a Greek city for by the founding of cities in these places savagery was extinguished and the worse element, gaining familiarity with the better, changed under its influence" Plutarch's Moralia, On the Fortune of Alexander I, 328D, 329A (Loeb, F.C. Babbitt).

"By these criteria let Alexander also be judged! For from his words, from his deeds, and from the instruction' which he imparted, it will be seen that he was indeed a philosopher" Plutarh's Moralia, On the Fortune Of Alexander I, 4, 328B (Loeb, F.C. Babbitt).

In the cities Alexander liberated, he abolished the oligarchies that ruled them and restored democracy (see Arrian I 18,2). Today, Arabs and other peoples of Asia he conquered, proudly claim descent from Alexander the Great (see Document No 15: A list of 22 of Pakistan's national heroes, the 11th of whom is Alexander.)

The achievement of Alexander and his Macedonian successors in the Helleno-Bactrian kingdom had a profound influence on Buddhism. Before Alexander's time, there were no representations of Buddha; so it is quite amazing to see a statue of Buddha with a bust of Alexander beside it. (see Document No 16)

Alexander is mentioned by the Prophets Isaiah (19:20,23), Daniel (8:21-22), and Maccabees (A, 1) and also in the Talmud. The Romans deified him, and Mohammed includes him in the Koran, as Zul-Carnein, amongst the prophets. (see Document No 17)

The Ptolemies: Ptolemy II (285-245 BC) translated the Old Testament into Greek, producing the Septuagint, which is the official version used by both the Eastern and the Western Church. Ptolemy I founded the Museum (Academy) of Alexandria and also its Library, which, thanks to the Greek Ptolemies, contained 700,000 volumes at the time of its destruction.
It was on the Ptolemies' orders that the legacy of the ancient Greek philosophers was preserved in Alexandria, the possession of all humankind today.

It was in Alexandria that science - physics, mathematics, engineering, astronomy (the first observatory was built in 289 BC by Prolemy 111) developed and it was in the same city that Aristarchus of Samos first expounded the theory of the heliocentric universe, anticipating Copernicus by many hundreds of years.

The first surgical operation on a human being was performed in Alexandria, by Herophilus and Erissistratos, and the science of anatomy was developed there.

Not only was the old Testament translated into Greek, but the New Testament was actually written in Greek. St. Paul saw a vision, in which a "man of Macedonia" spoke to him - of course in Greek - (Acts 16:9) and it was in Macedonia that the Apostle began his missionary work in Europe. Paul and Silas met Greek men and women in Thessalonika and Beroea who were converted into Christianity (Acts 17:4,12), and thanks to the Greek Macedonians Christianity was transmitted all over the world in the Greek language.

Cyril and Methodius, the two Greek brothers from Thessaloniki, now known as the "Apostles to the Slavs", are the protagonists of the Slavs' Christianisation in the 9th century, an event which came to be the most important historical and cultural incident for Europe and the world by and large.
"Rightly, therefore, Saints Cyril and Methodius were at an early stage, recognized by the family of Slav peoples, as the fathers of both Christianity and their culture" (see Document No 18 from Epistola Enciclica of Pope Giovanni Paolo II.)

http://www.hri.org/Martis/contents/main5.html

[Benn]

Macedonia name issue is not just a "name" issue. The great outcome behind this issue is the denial of a whole nation's existence. The roots are seeded as far back as the 3rd and 4th century (Before Christ)

[Hellenicoz]

Macedonia name issue is not just a "name" issue. The great outcome behind this issue is the denial of a whole nation's existence. The roots are seeded as far back as the 3rd and 4th century (Before Christ)

FYROM Propaganda. I am still waiting for one quote, map or anything to show that as far back as the 3rd or 4th century (Before Christ) other than Greece's "Kingdom of Macedonia" there was also another group of people whom didnt speak Greek, but they spoke the current language spoken in FYROM which we all know has really come from Bulgarian. The History books must of missed this nation which you say existed? They must of forgotten to write down these people names because I dont see surnames like Domovski, Markovski, Gruevski, Petrovski, Pandev but just Greek names? I dont see the writting which is used in the FYROM currently, but just Greek writting? Please explain, so we can re-write the history books & everything the historians have written for thousands of years? Historians means historians not something a grandfather said or some person from the FYROM wrote in Wikipedia to start propaganda.

[Hellenicoz]

Macedonia name issue is not just a "name" issue. The great outcome behind this issue is the denial of a whole nation's existence. The roots are seeded as far back as the 3rd and 4th century (Before Christ)

FYROM Propaganda. I am still waiting for one quote, map or anything to show that as far back as the 3rd or 4th century (Before Christ) other than Greece's "Kingdom of Macedonia" there was also another group of people whom didnt speak Greek, but they spoke the current language spoken in FYROM which we all know has really come from Bulgarian. The History books must of missed this nation which you say existed? They must of forgotten to write down these people names because I dont see surnames like Domovski, Markovski, Gruevski, Petrovski, Pandev but just Greek names? I dont see the writting which is used in the FYROM currently, but just Greek writting? Please explain, so we can re-write the history books & everything the historians have written for thousands of years? Historians means historians not something a grandfather said or some person from the FYROM wrote in Wikipedia to start propaganda.

If you look back most of this topic previous posts, you will see so much historical proof & quotes showing Macedonia was Greek & Slav's arrived in the region in the 6th.

[Andrewz]

This is an interesting video I found on youtube, called "Macedonia is Greece", you might be interested to know what is called the "Star of Vergina"

[Hellenicoz]

This is an interesting video I found on youtube, called "Macedonia is Greece", you might be interested to know what is called the "Star of Vergina"

All this historical proof and still Greece are seen in the wrong because they did not allow "The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" to be recognised officially by the Greek name "Macedonia" and have the Greek symbol of "Star of Vergina" which represent Greece's northern region "Macedonia" as their flag.

Its dissapointing when Russians, Serbs, English and others say Greece should allow the former Yugoslav country to use what ever name and flag they want and make the Greece look like the bad guys.

[Hellenicoz]

MACEDONIA AND NATO

The view from Athens
By Dora Bakoyannis Published: March 31, 2008

Members of NATO are set to meet Wednesday in Bucharest to consider measures to strengthen the alliance, which may include invitations to three Balkan countries -Albania, Croatia and the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) - to join the trans-Atlantic family.

As the region's oldest member of both NATO and the European Union, we feel a heightened sense of responsibility for our neighborhood, an obligation to be constructive, pragmatic and supportive. We will strongly back the inclusion of Albania and Croatia in NATO.

We will not be able to do the same for FYROM, however, as long as its leaders refuse to settle the issue of its name, which they promised the United Nations to do more than 13 years ago. Since then, however, they have refused every compromise suggested by UN mediators - in sharp contrast to Greece, which found promise for a solution in several of the proposals.

The leaders of this new land-locked country of 2 million insist on calling their homeland "Macedonia," even though that is a name that has been a part of Greek history and culture for 3,500 years and is the name of our largest northern province.

Why can't this new country call itself whatever it wants?

Let me explain the problem as Greeks see it. When Marshal Tito of Yugoslavia changed the name of his country's southern province in 1944 from Vardar Banovina to the Social Republic of Macedonia, he did it to stir up disorder in northern Greece in order to communize the area and to gain an outlet to the Aegean Sea for his country.

This policy was also linked with the Greek civil war that at the time claimed more than 100,000 Greek lives, brought untold destruction to our country, and delayed our post-war reconstruction for a decade.

The name "Republic of Macedonia," therefore, is not a phantom fear for us Greeks. It is linked with the deliberate plan to take over a part of Greek territory that has had a Greek identity for more than three millennia and is associated with immense pain and suffering by the Greek people.

Greeks believed that when Yugoslavia dissolved and FYROM declared its independence in 1991, its leaders would recognize our sensitivity to its use of a name it adopted during the Communist era and change it, as the Soviet Union did, to make a clean break with its past.

Not only did they fail to do that, but for 17 years now, the authorities in the country have continued to try to undermine Greek sovereignty over Greek Macedonia, which they call "Aegean Macedonia," and to portray it as "occupied" territory that will one day be "liberated."

While government leaders declare that they have no designs on Greek territory, they refuse to remove such claims from textbooks, speeches, articles, maps and national documents. In fact, by insisting on the name Tito gave the area, they perpetuate the goal he pursued.

Most distressing for Greeks is that the leaders of FYROM insist that their country use the designation "Macedonia" in their country's name without any qualification - in dramatic contrast to international practice and common sense.

When parts of a historical region fall into two countries, the newer area uses an adjective to distinguish itself from the older one - New Mexico and Mexico are one such example. But the leaders of Skopje have so far rejected all possible designations to do that proposed by current UN mediator, Matthew Nimetz.

Greece does not dispute that a part of historic Macedonia lies within FYROM and we are prepared to accept a compound name. But FYROM insists on being sole claimant to the name of a whole area, the largest part of which lies outside its borders.

This intransigence comes in spite of Greece's efforts to maintain good relations with FYROM and to support it economically. In the past dozen years, Greece has made the biggest investments (more than $1 billion) and created the most jobs (20,000) in FYROM of any country in the world.

Greece has also made great strides to try to resolve the name issue under UN auspices. It has sat at the negotiating table since 1995 and has shown willingness to consider a solution that the UN mediator advocates - a composite name that includes the geographical designation of Macedonia but attaches an adjective to it to distinguish it from the Greek province with the same name. That's sensible, reasonable and fair to both sides.

FYROM leaders declare that this is a bilateral issue with Greece, and it should not affect their country's prospects for NATO membership. But alliances and partnership can only be fostered among countries if there is mutual trust and good will. The best way for FYROM to show both is to settle the name issue now.

Greece has unilaterally gone more than halfway on the issue, closer to two thirds of the way, I would say, and we hoped FYROM would have started moving toward us by now. But they have not budged from their hard line. Not one inch.

We cannot go any farther. As long as the problem persists we cannot and will not endorse FYROM joining NATO or the European Union. No Greek government will ever agree to it. No Greek parliament will ever approve it.

Dora Bakoyannis is the foreign minister of Greece.


http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/03/31/ ... php?page=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0pODsG0 ... re=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1j4U79e ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGXbWo9B ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HTE_Lg_ ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTcpf4TT ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFKy0aun ... re=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKVlty4F ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=AU&hl=e ... JU0cE4CIZQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=AU&hl=e ... re=related

http://www.cc.ece.ntua.gr/~conster/Engl ... c_tito.htm

http://modern-macedonian-history.blogsp ... evski.html

http://web.mit.edu/hellenic/www/macedonia.html

http://history-of-macedonia.com/wordpre ... y-part-ii/

[M.Helen]

In the past dozen years, Greece has made the biggest investments (more than $1 billion) and created the most jobs (20,000) in FYROM of any country in the world.

so maybe this is one of the problems. Greece should have a strategy in order to protect its position. Thus, FYROM gets great financial support from Greece, but, FYROM might have changed its position against the name if Greece ceased investing those huge amounts. So it could cede.

[Hellenicoz]

In 1994, Greece imposed an embargo on products from FYROM (except for food, medicine and humanitarian assistance), on claims that the adoption of a Greek name ("Macedonia") for the country, a Greek symbol (the Vergina Sun/Star) for its flag and certain articles in its constitution, hide irredentist designs against Greece. For the embargo to end, the flag, certain articles in its constitution, and the hostile propaganda have to be changed ("small package"), while the name can be decided in later negotiations.

In regards to stopping Greece investing those huge amounts in FYROM might not be easy if its private Greek business owners & not government owned.

[Nathan]

So Greece already took certain actions which warned FYROM against using illegally the Greek name. Unfortunately, ordinary people suffer from similar economic embargos. The solution must be found differently.

[Hellenicoz]

Former Yugoslav Macedonian Identity "To Be Defined"
Skopje | 02 April 2009 |


EC BuildingThe European Commission has decided to redefine the terms “Macedonian”, “Macedonians” and country code “MK” in its institutional style guide, Erik Meijer, European Parliament Rapporteur for The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, suspects.

According to information obtained by Eric Meijer, these terms now in common use are to be replaced with the designation "to be defined", in order to satisfy Greece's objections to the name "Macedonia". The “altered” style guide is not yet available to the public.


Meijer was cited by the Macedonian national news agency, MIA, asking the EC whether it takes into account that this only complicates matters by taking the “name” row into new and “very sensitive” fields of national identity that will be “impossible to solve".


However, in an interview for local Alfa TV this afternoon Meijer said he got reassured by the EC that this means nothing in practice. “It means the situation will not change” and the terms will remain in use, he said.


Athens blocked Skopje last April from NATO entry, objecting that only the Greek northern province has the right to call itself Macedonia. Greece stated that it could block FYROM's EU accession as well, if it did not change its name.


In an EC response to Meijer, MIA reports, EC President Jose Manuel Barroso confirms it is true they used standard names until recently, but that, in the summer of 2008, a decision was taken to make this change. Thus, in the inter institutional style guide compiled by the Office for Official Publications of the European Communities, these terms have been replaced with "to be defined". The commission says all references are strictly in accordance with United Nations Security Council Resolution 817/93.


Meijer also expresses concerns about the delaying of the date for opening EU accession talks for FYROM, despite recent European Parliament recommendations assessing that Greek opposition could continue for years, MIA reported. The country achieved candidate status in 2005, but the EC did not grant an extended recommendation for further progress due to insufficient internal reforms.


Long-standing UN-sponsored name talks between FYROM and Greece have so far been in vain. While Greece insists a composite name for its neighbour should be used by all countries, The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia accepts a mutually agreeable name only in correspondence with Greece, since only this country has such problems.


Additionally, the talks have in effect ground to a halt, as both countries are currently occupied with domestic elections.

http://history-of-macedonia.com/wordpre ... e-defined/

[Nathan]

agree. This is all history of thousands of years. You can't just decide one day to call the land in a way you want just because you like it. By supporting their positions, Greeks actually prove that they do care about their past and history.

[prottos101]

thanks