European Union Forums

[JimmmY]

Hi, men! If you decide to surf through our forum, you'll find a whole heap of posts devoted to Belarus. It seems to me that Belarusian propaganda-men have woken up . Yeah, sometimes it gets on my nerves, and I want to use a witticism in my replies. But… nevertheless we’ve got to be tolerant, you see if the people just keep on writing such messages then there’s a reason for it, isn’t there? As far as I got it, the Byelorussians want to maintain friendship relations with Europe at large, however only if their current President Lukashenko steps down. Hmm… why so? Well, I visited the links they give, mainly it’s this web site charter97. org/en . You know, I’ve read their articles and came to the conclusion that much of the info has been exaggerated at least a bit. However even we take this factor into account they’ll still be right – we help dictator suppress his people! Hey, guys, this isn’t acceptable!! Actually it’s too early to allow Belarus into the Eastern Partnership, because their authorities are not ready yet!

[Big_Becka]

I am very sad that you didn't say "Hi" to me, JimmmY! Or many of the other users of this forum

I only know about the situation in Belarus from what I have read on this forum. Are you Belarussian? What makes you say that you think the other posts are a little exaggerated?

The public perception of Belarus, like much of eastern Europe (especially the former USSR), is still very negative. We have only heard of Belarus because of Chernobyl, human trafficking, and various atrocities in World War II!

Do we want these child-eating radioactive crime-lords to go unsuppressed?

[I am joking, of course! I do not wish to offend anyone. However, I want you to understand that, in the minds of many people, there is a concern over the morals and motives of the Belarussian people]

Historically the west has liked to have a buffer between themselves and Russia.

More recently, stability has become highly prized. We know nothing about Lukashenko, but there are people who would argue that he must be better that the lawlessness and uncertainty of the 1990s

I would be interested to know if you think that this partially explains the situation. I would also be ineterested if you know of some unbiased links where I can find out more?

[JimmiN]

IFJ to ask EU not to cooperate with the Belarusian authorities

EU to be asked to control realization of journalists’ rights in Belarus
The International Federation of Journalists is going to ask EU institutions to control the Belarusian government in its promotion of rights for journalists. The organization’s Secretary General Aidan White has claimed it in Berlin.
The International Federation of Journalists does not support “the policy of the Belarusian authorities aimed at establishment of total control over the information system”. It is going to use every opportunity to inform European countries “that they should not cooperate with the Belarusian authorities if they subject journalism to repression and impose limits on mass media”.
euroradio. fm/en/1028/news/40496/

I totally agree. Even more, I believe they got to bring Lukashenka to responsibility for the ‘Zavadski case’. You know, Zavadski was a Belarusian oppositional journalist who castigated Lukashenka. In 2000, he suddenly went missing and it is believed that he was murdered by secret services of Belarus on order of Lukashenka. Just like oppositional leaders Zakharenka, Gonchar and Krasovski. Lukashenka must not get away with these crimes! Besides, question of confidence to Sweden should be brought up as it is Sweden in particular that suggested involving Belarus into the Eastern Partnership program, which in point of fact is rehabilitation of ‘the last dictator of Europe’. Perhaps, Sweden has done it out of its own interests, e.g. advancing her business projects in Belarus? Huh?

[Jen'ka]

“Don’t pay attention to the squeaking and shrieking inside and outside the country…” – that’s what our ‘beloved president’ said in response to the European demands to change electoral system in Belarus. (charter97. org/en/news/2009/11/10/23566/). President Lukashenka has clearly and openly expressed his opinion that he doesn’t give a shit about the EU. But what hurts me more is that he seems to be doing everything OK, because even the opposition agrees with him on that issue! Because you see, you there in your Europe are doing nothing more but promoting dictators in the Eastern Partnership (soderkoping. org. ua/page24441.html) while showing absolutely no reaction to the appeals of ordinary people! You behave like masochists (I can’t think of another name for it) – you keep on flirting with Lukashenka, while he's f*cking you up! I think you should gather in your Brussels and decide what you need – a dictatorship in the very centre of Europe or a democratic and pro-European country?

[Big_Becka]

Lear, what you say is true, but you should know that there are government constraints on the media in democratic countries too.

The BBC and other UK news agencies are sometime given news "down the wire" - i.e. they receive a report from the government and they must report it as it is given.

Let us not forget the problems that the BBC experienced over the reporting of the Iraq war...

[Riksy]

Hi pips! I’ am from Belarus myself. Friendly speaking, I don’t know why, but I decided to write here some thoughts about my country and the relations between Europe and Belarus. I’ve wrote this post because I didn’t want to address politicians, I wanted ordinary people to read it. You know, here in Belarus, we strongly oppose the current relationship between the EU and Belarus. Please, don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to say that we don’t need it, quite the contrarily I’ am more than happy to see my country in the EU “Eastern partnership” initiative. But evidently there is just a place for Lukashenka only. And that beats me! It makes me think that today the European foreign policy goes contrary to its own moral values. Especially I’ am talking about the human rights (charter97. org/en/news/2009/10/16/22878/), freedom of speech (charter97. org/en/news/2009/10/19/22907/) and political prisoners (charter97. org/en/news/2009/10/14/22790/) in Belarus. I just can’t understand why the European politicians have forgotten about it? Or may be they just make a show of it? Here, in Belarus, we do everything to attract Europeans’ attention to the lawlessness and amorality of the existing regime. And it’s a pity to understand that Europe now stands not behind us, the people of Belarus. Today Europe stands behind Lukashenka. Thank you for reading it and best regards to you! Hope for the best still!

[paul_hip]

Huh, Eastern Partnership... I just wonder what the EU might be expecting from this project. If you make a closer inspection you will notice that EaP is just a gathering of flawed sub-countries. Just see for its members. Belarus – the last dictatorship of Europe. Georgia – loony schizo-president Saakashvili known for his pro-Americanism. Ukraine – another pro-American nation and everlasting political squabbles and intrigues among the “orange” power and also everlasting gas transit crisis. Moldova – not even less repulsive president of Voronin who vacated seat in September. A group of curiosities! Why the hell we should be bound with them? The whole thing is neither more nor less than mere waste of EU funds! By the way, EaP was initiated by Sweden so I dare say that Swedish gov is just using the EU budget to achieve some of its own goals. Say, in Belarus it might be privatization of the pipeline industry enterprises. No kidding, because in case of success Sweden would gain a sweet bonus which is considerable increase of Sweden’s influence in Europe having under control one of key routs of energy transit. I only wonder why they in Brussels don’t seem to care. Is it really OK for them?

[Freddy]

Well, in my judgment Swedes, presiding in the EU now, have finally cracked their brain! Within the framework of their “Eastern Partnership” Initiative they’ve proposed to support current Belarus financially through investing over 20 million euros “for advancing its integration to our European economy”.
But that won’t pass! And not only because of our present crisis’ difficulties, but also, and above all things, because in such a way we, in fact, will support the last dictatorship in Europe! I mean Lukashenko’s regime in Belarus. And if now over 60% of Belarusian population dreams of EU entry, then after so inconsiderate behaviour of our EU leaders nobody will work for it.
Really, what good will it be to them if even democratic Europe allows itself openly sponsoring Lukashenko’s totalitarian regime?

[Guest]

EU i a trap I am telling as a Belorussian you can stick your EU where sun does not shine.
Hey if we can not get into EU then we dont want to be in EU. We willjoin with Russia again, and our houses will be warm in the winter will yours?
Now if you let Belorus join EU would EU be better or worse?
You know you can't have Belorus in EU and that is why you are so bitter

[Malik]

What do you think about the following phrase of our President? ‘The speculations whether or not Lukashenko has veered towards the West are stupid and absurd’ – President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko. ( news.belta. by/en/news/president?id=453243 )
I hope now you’ve become convinced that Lukashenko is totally unreliable as a partner. Here in Belarus it’s been long since we realized that he never splits the difference and doesn’t take into account the interests of those he deals with. But you there in Europe have been very naпve to think that you’ll manage to make him accept your conditions which are unfavorable for him. You should realize it at last that he’s a dictator who will never play the game by your rules. Lukashenko will simply take everything he needs from you and then will impudently say that Europe demands too much from him. After that he’ll go back to Russia (which has happened many times already) that will support him so as just to make things lively for Europe. You see, Lukashenko behaves like a dirty road prostitute who has been f*cked by hundreds of different men and who is infected with many diseases. Isn’t it disgusting for you to deal with him?

[Guest]

What do you think about the following phrase of our President? ‘The speculations whether or not Lukashenko has veered towards the West are stupid and absurd’ – President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko. ( news.belta. by/en/news/president?id=453243 )
I hope now you’ve become convinced that Lukashenko is totally unreliable as a partner. Here in Belarus it’s been long since we realized that he never splits the difference and doesn’t take into account the interests of those he deals with. But you there in Europe have been very naпve to think that you’ll manage to make him accept your conditions which are unfavorable for him. You should realize it at last that he’s a dictator who will never play the game by your rules. Lukashenko will simply take everything he needs from you and then will impudently say that Europe demands too much from him. After that he’ll go back to Russia (which has happened many times already) that will support him so as just to make things lively for Europe. You see, Lukashenko behaves like a dirty road prostitute who has been f*cked by hundreds of different men and who is infected with many diseases. Isn’t it disgusting for you to deal with him?

tO ME IT SOUNDS LIKE SMART LEADER WHO TAKE ALL HE CAN FROM STUPID EUROPE And does not sell his country to the europe
I wish there were more leaders like him

[Guest]

Huh, Eastern Partnership... I just wonder what the EU might be expecting from this project. If you make a closer inspection you will notice that EaP is just a gathering of flawed sub-countries. Just see for its members. Belarus – the last dictatorship of Europe. Georgia – loony schizo-president Saakashvili known for his pro-Americanism. Ukraine – another pro-American nation and everlasting political squabbles and intrigues among the “orange” power and also everlasting gas transit crisis. Moldova – not even less repulsive president of Voronin who vacated seat in September. A group of curiosities! Why the hell we should be bound with them? The whole thing is neither more nor less than mere waste of EU funds! By the way, EaP was initiated by Sweden so I dare say that Swedish gov is just using the EU budget to achieve some of its own goals. Say, in Belarus it might be privatization of the pipeline industry enterprises. No kidding, because in case of success Sweden would gain a sweet bonus which is considerable increase of Sweden’s influence in Europe having under control one of key routs of energy transit. I only wonder why they in Brussels don’t seem to care. Is it really OK for them?

While I will not deny that there could be some economic gains, the partnerships are are also intended at both a type of security and a for of integration. You are also writting from a rationalist and realist perspective.

The goals of partnerships is usually stability and integration. You mentioned above that political squabbles and the crazy idiot that is the current president of Georgia. Well, European integration is intended for just this type of instability. Look what it is doing for the Balkans. Usually in partnership and association agreements with Balkans countries there is an EU led regime of good governance, human rights and democracy. This EU-led regime is often loaded with "sweets," often called conditionality, and playing by the EU's rule of the game usually means visa free travel, aid and trade.
Now - if they are seeking EU membership (as Georgia) they will have to really be good to get even more sweets

[Vilnovich]

Hey, Europeans! Have you not yet admitted your mistake? I mean that you staked on autocrat Lukashenka? I mean, that’s not EU in the whole that did it, but Sweden in particular as it was Swedish authority as such to suggest the idea of Belarus’ involvement into the Eastern Partnership (this being done, the regime in Belarus remains the same and even grows stronger thanks to your support). It is strange and yet true that the rest of Europe gave tacit agreement and no one seems to remember all the crimes by Lukashenka against human rights. By we will refresh memory! Here you are a book that fully illustrates Lukashenka’s implication in sudden disappearance of people and political murders of oppositionists and journalists in Belarus! (charter97.o rg/en/news/2009/12/1/24168/) I hope you’ll read it. If even after that you will keep saying that Lukashenka is worth cooperation, then there is nothing more to be said. Democracy has died in Europe!

[Mikalai]

Hi to all Byelorussians there! Being a USA resident I actually have Byelorussian blood running in my veins. And I’ve always been proud of the fact! Now I feel pretty sad to see how your government makes too hasty decisions in politics when accepting ‘charity gifts’ from the West, IMF loans and other. By taking those loans you invariably become dependant on the West. E.g. take a look at the neighboring Ukraine where economy is not only shattered – it’s almost nonexistent anymore, and chaos is raging in Ukraine’s politics making people be distrustful of anyone! Well, everything began there just the way it’s happening now in your country – the West also “helped them out of trouble” by lending some money. Doesn’t it ring any bells? Judge for yourselves. Why did the IMF give you $3 BILLION while you asked for only $500 MILLION? Do you know that? Well, I know! So as to make your dependency on the West more significant! Change your mind, guys! It’s not help, it’s bondage!

[JusticeMan]

Another innocent Byelorussian who stands for democratic development of my country has been kidnapped by President Lukashenko’s gofers! (charter97. org/en/news/2009/12/7/24345/) But he was lucky enough to have been released alive, unlike my friend Zmister Zavadsky and many other fighters for justice who have been missing for many years already! It’s yet unclear though why does Europe famous for its rights advocates pay no regard to it at all? You see, when Ukrainian journalist Gongadze suddenly disappeared and later was brutally murdered all of you started to actively condemn the then Ukrainian President Kuchma’s regime, you even orchestrated the ‘orange revolution’ there. While our president Lukashenko receives presents from you instead of punishment! You see, you’ve accepted him in the Eastern Partnership knowing about all his crimes! Who of you can tell me where your vaunted European values are in this case? Maybe you can split the log?

[aimhigh]

This is so sad in the life of the journalist. Journalist lives now are all in danger.

[Guest]

Georgia ???????
Who is talking about Georgia??
Are you drunk??

[Anatoliy]

Administration of Belarusian President Lukashenko has ventured too far, i.m.h.o! They say that Europe humiliates Belarus by its actions!! (charter97. org/en/news/2009/12/10/24471/)
I wonder, what are those actions by which we humiliate them? By accepting their dictatorial country to the Eastern Partnership? Or by giving them money (loans of course)? Or maybe by allowing their unrecognized President to enter European countries?
Personally I can see no humiliation at all in ‘em! I think I have an appropriate saying to describe the situation now: ‘Give him an inch and he’ll take a mile’. That’s why now I believe we should change the carrot to the sik in our policy towards that country to cut down to size those Clever Dicks in Lukashenko’s administration!
Well. What do you think?

[Terry]

First of all, I think that Lukashenko answers for his words only, the whole country shouldn't suffer for his reaction. Your anger is directed to Lukashenko, but you prefer to punish the whole country, it seems to be unfair. From the other side, Lukashenko ,as a President, represents interests of his country and should be more attentive to what he tells, because consequences will touch the whole country. In this situation Lukashenko goes too far, however, as ever

[Fear]

Well, I cannot bring myself to believe! According to words of our European commissioners (B. Ferrero-Waldner and K. De Gucht) present Belarus has turned into "a very important partner for the EU now". That is why "we need to expand bilateral cooperation, to ease our visa regime with Belarus and to do all possible in order to simplify Belarus’ integration into the EU economy". As if this plan may motivate present Belarusian authorities to reform their totalitarian regime and to turn respect for the rights and freedoms in this country into the norm of life there. My foot!
It will make the process of democratization of Belarusian society more impossible than before. And project agreement on partnership and cooperation between the EU and present Belarus becomes our economic and political betrayal of all main principles and values of European society. For what purpose, I wonder? Has our economic and financial situation come to full collapse now if we have to cooperate with Lukashenka’s dictatorship?